UKC Forums - Trespassing?

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 02-12-2024 04:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
I gotta ? Wouldn't hireing a drone service to help retrieve deer on private property that permission is not granted, wouldn't that also be grounds for drone pilot licenses to be revoked.....the drone service pilot helped break the law....him being a state trooper is irrelevant.....or is it ?.....just thinking out loud.

I believe there are different laws in each state regarding drones. Ohio they are allowed as it's considered air space. Nobody owns the sky.

Ringtail I take no offense to your post you are only stating what the law says. I think each situation is different and a little more info goes along ways. My family owns all around this neighboring property. I guess many many years ago the owner of the neighboring property had a barbwire fence put down a good portion of the property but not all of it. I walked back a few days after the wardens questioned me in the daylight and most the fence is on or under the ground. When we walked back to recover my deer we seen no fences or no posted signs anywhere. There was never a single thought of I think we're trespassing. The Wardens have the gps coordinates and found drag marks on the neighboring property. I may be way off base when I say this , but if I want people to stay off my property in a giant block of timber I'm going to make sure its posted and fenced. With my statement along with the troopers of no fence was crossed no sign was seen I'd surely think they'd have no case. The law clearly reads you have to knowingly enter a property you do not have permission to be on to he charged with trespassing. If I drive my car back there driveway tomorrow and go knock on there door would that make me guilty of trespassing also?

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Trevor Hack
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Posted by ESTEP on 02-12-2024 04:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ringtail
Are you serious? Tyrannical? Bully someone out of their deer head. Hahaha

Hoosier shot a deer on his property and it ran onto his neighbor's property. In Ohio you can not go on someone else property to retrieve a dead deer without permission. Once the deer leaves your property and goes on the neighboring property, it is no longer your deer.
If it is proven Hoosier was not on the neighboring property, he will get his deer back.

Have you had a lot of interaction with police?

If I wasn't being serious I wouldn't waist my time commenting. Some of us obviously Love Freedom more than others. I have stated that I appreciate law enforcement but there is a time and place for them. Also I was under the assumption that the landowner wasn't even trying to press charges. Considering the man said they seen no posted signs gonna be hard to charge him for trespassing. Btw I'm glad you got a good laugh over my comment 😁 and Yes I've had plenty of good and bad interactions with the law.

Posted by Dave Richards on 02-12-2024 06:03 PM:

Re: Re: Trevor

quote:
Originally posted by ringtail
REMEMBER repeat REMEMBER, it's only cheating if you get caught.

Man Dave, Hoosier hasn't been charged with murder. I doublt he'll be charged at all. He shot a deer on his property and recovered it on his neighbor's property. More than likely the worst thing that is going to happen, has already happened. He lost his deer. NOW, if it turns out he was not on the other property, he'll get his deer back.

I think Hoosier knows the deer was recovered on his neighbor's property. I think if he thought it was on his property he would have said so.

Hoosier didn't say why or how the neighbor knows the deer was on his property. I assume he found a gut pile and you can bet the neighbor has the spot marked on GPS.

Ringtail, You are making to many assumptions and are acting as if Trevor knew he was wrong. My advice was what any respectable Attorney would tell Trevor ( Hoosier). Opinions do not matter. Nothing I have posted suggests cheating in any way, but protecting ones rights and helping a fellow hunter. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Dave Richards on 02-13-2024 12:45 AM:

Trevor Hack

As you can see from the varied responses, there are those who only offer negative responses based on their preconceived assumptions, whether right or wrong. They have nothing positive to offer, myself, I do NOT know exactly what the real situation is no more than anyone but you personally. My advice was based on my sincere desire to offer you info that should be helpful to you and anyone else in a similar situation. Good luck whatever the results. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Dave Richards on 02-13-2024 01:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by houndsound
Yes I've heard of the 1st Amendment- I think it's right before the 2nd? If you read my post you would clearly see my perspective was that this would, or should be, treated like a very minor deal- if any deal at all. I spelled it out that it appeared there was no intent to trespass, and no damages- so I suspected a prosecutor would not find it worth their time to fight / prosecute it.

My point with the citizens who want to film their interactions with law-enforcement was simply that they are not taken all that serious, usually. Anytime you go talk to a person, wanting their help, their perspective, or to share your perspective... well the worst way to do that is with an antagonist and confrontational attitude... and filming a cop is almost always considered a way to say you want and expect confrontation and that you don't trust them. Sure it's your right... but usually hurts more than helps your cause. Basic human communications.

Lol. You are oblivious to the the many mistakes law enforcement actually make across our nation. Thankfully those who exercised their rights to film law enforcement has resulted in many cases where the victims who filmed were compensated as a result of abuse of law enforcement. Yes, these abuses are mostly an exception, but the need for one to protect themselves by filming their interactions with law enforcement exists for those who decide to abuse their positions in law enforcement. Your information is biased as you continue to suggest that you are part of law enforcement and ridicule one for filming their interactions with law enforcement. Attorneys will tell their clients to NOT answer any questions asked by law enforcement but the basics like name, etc. Way to many time folks foolishly answer questions that can and will be used against them in a court of law. Any respected law enforcement officer doing no wrong would never object to being filmed as that protects both parties. While not all enforcement has their own filming ability as many departments can not afford video equipment, any individual certainly has the right to film these interactions.I suppose there are some who seem to think that exercising ones rights is foolish, certainly not me or any attorney I know. Dave

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Posted by ringtail on 02-13-2024 03:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I believe there are different laws in each state regarding drones. Ohio they are allowed as it's considered air space. Nobody owns the sky.
........If I drive my car back there driveway tomorrow and go knock on there door would that make me guilty of trespassing also?

Unless the neighbor has told you that you are not allowed on his property and stay away, then no, you wouldn't be trespassing. That's why I don't think you'll be charged with trespassing in the deer recovery. I think the worst thing that can happen is you may not get your deer back. Knowledge and Intent is key here. You have knowledge, that a long time ago the neighbor fenced his property. Where you were at, there was no fence, no sign that a fence had been there, and no No Trespassing signs. A criminal case should be dead in the water. I know "it's the hunter's responsibility to know who's property" but still no property lines, not posted and no intent should squash the trespassing. The question is, can you get your deer back with going to court?

Just a thought: Do you have mutual friends with the neighbor that would go talk to him? I doubt if that has many friends, but it's possible.

Hope you get your deer back.

__________________
ringtail dave

"TREE MY DOG" - NO BETTER FEELING

NAADP Charter Member....... appointed by King Dave himself........

Posted by ringtail on 02-13-2024 05:04 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Trevor

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Ringtail, You are making to many assumptions and are acting as if Trevor knew he was wrong. My advice was what any respectable Attorney would tell Trevor ( Hoosier). Opinions do not matter. Nothing I have posted suggests cheating in any way, but protecting ones rights and helping a fellow hunter. Dave

I never said, nor do I think Hoosier Man knew he was on the wrong property at the time he recovered his deer. I think he figured it out or someone told him after the fact. If he would known he was in the wrong, I doubt he would have left a gut pile.

I am all for helping fellow hunters. The best advice is be up front good or bad. If you get caught withholding information or not being honest, everything you say is suspect. If your advice is lawyer up then lawyer up and don't say anything.

I know I'm assuming again, but I don't think Hoosier intentionally did anything wrong and I don't think he'll be charged. Don't see how he can be. Right now everything (except getting his deer back) is in his favor.

__________________
ringtail dave

"TREE MY DOG" - NO BETTER FEELING

NAADP Charter Member....... appointed by King Dave himself........

Posted by ringtail on 02-13-2024 05:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
I gotta ? Wouldn't hireing a drone service to help retrieve deer on private property that permission is not granted, wouldn't that also be grounds for drone pilot licenses to be revoked.....the drone service pilot helped break the law....him being a state trooper is irrelevant.....or is it ?.....just thinking out loud.

I'm no drone expert, but here is my take.
As long as you are respecting privacy, being safe, and staying in uncontrolled airspace (staying below 400 ft above the ground) you are good to go. The drone service can go above 400, but he would have to get permission from the FAA. He could get his license revoked if he kept flying around above 400 without permission.

__________________
ringtail dave

"TREE MY DOG" - NO BETTER FEELING

NAADP Charter Member....... appointed by King Dave himself........

Posted by Dave Richards on 02-13-2024 06:10 AM:

Trevor Hack

One more thing Trevor, there are hunting apps that show the property line for most states and I am
positive there are ones for Ohio. I personally have 2 myself 1 for Virginia and 1 for Tennessee. They even show the landowners names and property lines based on GPS data. The ownership might not be up to date as land often changes ownership, but the property line are up to date. I have seen cases by hunters using this info to sue a land owner over shooting their dogs based on GPS data from the tracking collars that proved the dogs were never on that property owners land. We have tools available today to solve land disputes like trespassing and other erroneous claims. For anyone to suggest that not talking to law enforcement suggests one has something to hide is either foolish at worst or naive at best. Remember that law enforcement can actually lie to someone in order to collect information regarding their case. One very good reason why one is definitely not compelled to talk to them. Being charged with an offense does not mean one is guilty, that's what a court of law is for. Attorneys and judges even juries when needed decide cases NOT Law enforcement. Law enforcement only upholds the law charging a offense when they think someone has broken the law. Our court system provides that everyone is entitled to legal representation even being appointed a lawyer by the court if they can not afford one. I realize that none of this will be needed in this case, only giving this info for those that might need it in the future. Hope it helps. Dave

__________________
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Posted by Dave Richards on 02-13-2024 10:29 AM:

Trevor Hack

Trevor, it would be my guess that if this is a large block or tract of land that it most likely has not been surveyed. Old deeds often refer to markers that have long disappeared making actual boundary lines difficult to ascertain. If they proceed against you on s trespassing claim, make them show you a survey that actually confirms their property lines, not just old deed markers that may be inaccurate. Surveys are NOT cheap, put that ball in their court. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 02-13-2024 03:25 PM:

Re: Trevor Hack

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Trevor, it would be my guess that if this is a large block or tract of land that it most likely has not been surveyed. Old deeds often refer to markers that have long disappeared making actual boundary lines difficult to ascertain. If they proceed against you on s trespassing claim, make them show you a survey that actually confirms their property lines, not just old deed markers that may be inaccurate. Surveys are NOT cheap, put that ball in their court. Dave

Good info, thank you Dave

Posted by ScottCK 6 on 02-20-2024 03:55 PM:

Was the trooper using state property to find your deer?

If the Trooper knew or thought you were not on property you had permission to be on , he would have to report it, on duty or not.

__________________
Scott Morris
513-435-0977

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 02-23-2024 02:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ScottCK 6
Was the trooper using state property to find your deer?

If the Trooper knew or thought you were not on property you had permission to be on , he would have to report it, on duty or not.

He runs a deer drone recovery business on the side.

As of today my lawyer wants more money from me and there are still no charges or any word since they questioned me 2 weeks ago. In Ohio the statue of limitations on tresspassing is 4 years. That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I dont see how they can not return the deer if no charges are ever filed. My fear is they will try to keep it another 3 years and 11 months.

Posted by ScottCK 6 on 02-23-2024 10:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
He runs a deer drone recovery business on the side.

As of today my lawyer wants more money from me and there are still no charges or any word since they questioned me 2 weeks ago. In Ohio the statute of limitations on tresspassing is 4 years. That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I dont see how they can not return the deer if no charges are ever filed. My fear is they will try to keep it another 3 years and 11 months.

I understand that he runs the business on the side, I was asking if it was state owned drone? Running his business under the guise of �training�.

__________________
Scott Morris
513-435-0977

Posted by ScottCK 6 on 02-23-2024 08:26 PM:

I would also assume that the Trooper would have to mark the GPS coordinates of the deer, so you could find it. My guess your problems originate with the Trooper.

__________________
Scott Morris
513-435-0977

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 02-23-2024 11:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ScottCK 6
I would also assume that the Trooper would have to mark the GPS coordinates of the deer, so you could find it. My guess your problems originate with the Trooper.

He went with me to snap a picture. He was the same place I was where the deer died. I don't see him calling anyone if he thought he did no wrong. I still can't believe this is even happening. When someone does wrong and knows they did wrong its one thing. This is the complete opposite and a total nightmare that's been very hard on me and my family.

Posted by Dave Richards on 02-24-2024 05:41 PM:

Trevor Hack

You have received some good advise and a bunch of just opinions. Ultimately, none of these opinions mean nothing to your case. If you have a attorney and it appears that you do from your comments, let him do his job. All of the opinions coming from this board means nothing. I gave you some facts to think about based on my back ground and hope you discussed this info with your attorney. Not to be rude, but you should listen to what your attorney tells you and disregard opinions from those who have no legal knowledge. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Boondok Kennels on 02-25-2024 01:45 PM:

Advice

Trevor... You could just hire Mr Richards. He has ALL the answers. 😂. Sorry, I couldn�t resist.

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Posted by shadinc on 02-25-2024 03:36 PM:

Re: Advice

quote:
Originally posted by Boondok Kennels
Trevor... You could just hire Mr Richards. He has ALL the answers. 😂. Sorry, I couldn�t resist.

Mr. Richards, being an attorney, I would think he has better answers than the average coon hunter.

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Donald Bergeron

Posted by Boondok Kennels on 02-25-2024 03:58 PM:

Answers

Well heck, if Mr Richards is an attorney, I would agree! 👍

Posted by ScottCK 6 on 02-25-2024 06:27 PM:

Got a ticket squirrel hunting in the 90�s , warden asked to see my written permission, didn�t have any , I said it wasn�t posted. He said if you didn�t own it someone else does. Paid the $80

The Trooper has to report it , or could lose his job. If he posted pictures of his find to promote his business , landowner could have seen it and recognized the deer, contacted The drone Trooper or Wildlife officer then the investigation is on .

Huntview in Ohio is pretty accurate , within feet on my property , I know the technology on that drone is far superior , ignorance of the property lines does not absolve anyone from consequences, even the trooper!

I have heard a retired wildlife officer could lose his pension, if he knows of a wildlife violation and doesn�t report it!

You also said wardens had numerous complaints on you, probably while you were lawfully coonhunting. Everybody hates a Coonhunter, you may not know them , but they know you . It definitely stinks , Goodluck with it!

__________________
Scott Morris
513-435-0977

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 02-25-2024 08:38 PM:

Scott, here is what the Ohio revised code has to say about tressspassing. Most that are charged with it don't fight it. From doing research, most prosecuting attorneys won't even mess with it unless it's completely blatant. The Wardens told me they had multiple complaints on me but he's probably blowing hot air to make a case that I knew the area and had already been warned. Which is a complete lie.

Posted by ScottCK 6 on 02-25-2024 09:00 PM:

Yea , I�m sure if the complaints are valid landowner heard dogs , and �thought you were on him�. That�s the criminal trespass statute you posted, one can negligently �not knowingly� be cited as well and that�s a fact. In Ohio you can actually have permission to be there, officer can ask for your written permission, if you don�t have it, you can be cited. If you go 35 in a 25 get pulled over , and tell the officer you thought the the speed limit was 35, you�re getting a ticket! Hunter regulations in Ohio clearly state that you must have written permission to retrieve downed game. I�m on your side , it is what it is! You should pay the attorney and have him put their feet to the coals! A lot more pertinent issues in this state for sure!!

__________________
Scott Morris
513-435-0977

Posted by Dave Richards on 02-25-2024 11:54 PM:

Re: Advice

quote:
Originally posted by Boondok Kennels
Trevor... You could just hire Mr Richards. He has ALL the answers. 😂. Sorry, I couldn�t resist.

Lol. NO, he has a attorney that he SHOULD be listening to. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Dave Richards on 02-26-2024 12:46 AM:

Re: Advice

quote:
Originally posted by Boondok Kennels
Trevor... You could just hire Mr Richards. He has ALL the answers. 😂. Sorry, I couldn�t resist.

Bob, Why don't you give Trevor some info that would help him if you HAVE any? This FORUM should be one that helps each other in a time of need, not one where someone attacks someone that tries to help. Please share with this board if you HAVE some helpful information. I am sure that a important LEO like you will have lots of useful info for Trevor to use. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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