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-- Scores (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928554672)

Re: Scores

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
See my post on other score thread as I do not want to repeat myself. The score may be legit, but hunting in a training pen is not something that most hunters can respect. Nuff said. Dave

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__________________
I got him right here!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason Miller
Late Night Kennels

Re: Re: Scores

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Miller
They didn’t hunt in a training pen..

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Re: Re: Scores

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
I think we are now discussing semantics over what to call it. Talk is it was for all purpose a training area of about a hundred acres. Concentrated coons that were being fed and no hunting pressure. Same thing in my book. How many of the other cast got to hunt in a similar spot? Dave

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__________________
I got him right here!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason Miller
Late Night Kennels

Scores

Jason, I apologize for getting off course, as my main concern is with a high score in one cast being declared the Winner. Yes, under the High Score format this is the case and will be under that format. It's time to change before these hunts bust. How many hard working hunters do you think showed up for this event knowing that same thing. Some drove many miles, took off work and spent their hard earned dollars just to get a crappy draw. These hunts favor a small group that have privy to deer leases and other honey holes that give their dogs a Hugh advantage if you only go by high score. Going to a elimination style hunt equals the playing field and gives everyone a fair chance to win. I would like to see a real Winner and the owner having something to really be proud of. It's nonsense to even think one cast winner is a true champion solely based on a score hunting honey holes or land not accessible to every cast. We can stop these unfair advantages by going to a elimination format. It's not just the Winter Classic, but the Grand American that produces a local winner that has these honey holes not accessible to others, nothing fair to anyone but a select few. Honestly, I can not understand why more hunters have not demanded a elimination format or just stop going and playing against a stacked deck.Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Well with out us going around in circles to say the same thing about a hunt that has more than likely been going on when we were young.. It is not the format that is flawed, it is the people that attend.. You have the people that go to the hunt that want to see “Ol Jimmy”, I been seeing him for years at the Winter Classic, plus we love to walk around the vendors every year... You got the people with their over powering stud dogs that are trying to get their names in bright lights. You got the people that are ignorant of the fact that they are way in over their head, and don’t know what is going on.. Then you got the flat out crooks.. The folks that know how to work the system.. It is absolutely no different that any other hunt in America. Sure, the format is not the best, we both agree..

However, the flaw is in the human and their expectations.. There is not a format in the country that crooks can not cheat from (there is a couple elimination world hunts that prove that). There is not a format in America that is not going to shatter expectations of the hunter (the problem is how does the hunter react to those shattered expectations), and the way the ignorant become changed is through experience and education..However why can’t we just let Sam and Ol Jimmy visit every year at the Winter Classic without changing it for them.. I’m in a rush, so I didn’t proof read. Please do murder any errors. Let us agree to disagree..

__________________
I got him right here!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason Miller
Late Night Kennels

Jason Miller

You definitely seem to be a standup kind of man that anyone would be proud to call a friend. You make some interesting points and I tend to see your point of view. Do we need some changes, I definitely think so. Maybe a top 4 huntoff instead of a total elimination format. I think any improvement is better than no improvement.. Anything that gives all hunters a better chance to win this hunt would be a much needed improvement. Personally, I would like to see a top 16 format at least. I do understand the logistics of having a total elimination based hunt. Any improvement in the hunt format would be better than having a winner based on a 1 cast score. Thank you for all your comments as they were respectful and thoughtful and you made some interesting points. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Until UKC goes to an elimination style hunt, there will always be controversy.
Double cast wins like PKC is the best format.

Always controversy on the big hunts for UKC.
That’s why a lot of people don’t hunt them anymore.

I hope UKC takes a hard look at this, and addresses the format.

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Joe Watson
864-554-9920
Greenwood SC

What’s the difference in cheating someone out of money or a trophy in a hunt and reaching in their wallet and taking a hundred or two , I’ll tell you …nothing , they need to be treated as thieves either prosecuted or well you know.

That doesn’t happen in the dog world though, we go breed to those paper tigers do podcasts on them . Listen to them talk of Jesus and such, it’s a joke.

Always hear gotta have plus points to win. You think all those old time legends were great, back then almost always the last cast in had the high score of the hunt , club phone would ring , get told what they need , and start pencil whipping. But with that said there are some nice dogs out there!

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Scott Morris
513-435-0977

OK, I am someone that has done a little bit hunting and guiding in all the KC's. I have fell victim as well as benefited from both sides of the story. I went to the winter classic one time and had a chance to win over all dog. However, luck of the draw took me out of it. Luck of the draw was what had set me up on Friday night to even have a chance at It. On Fri, I drew a non hunting guide which happen to be the local Game Warden. We hunted government land and coon were breeding. The dogs were getting split and treeing coon all around us all night long. I did take some minus and I think I had like 775 or so witch I would have had over 900 hand I not made a mistake. It was just the perfect situation that night. The next night I drew a non hunting elderly man who put use in a thicket with only a hand full of trees and non any bigger than 4 inches round. I had like 650 circle all in the ground, there were not trees big enough there to even be den's. It was frustrating because I feel like my dog did everything he could given what he was subject too. I wish I had drawn one of the many paid guides with buckets hanging every where, but I was not mad about it. Another yr I went to the Grand American and it was not fun at all. I drew out a hunting guide who was taking us 3 hours away. They had already been drawing cast for an hour before we were drawn. I ask him if there was any way we would make deadline, he said no. We stayed at the hotel that night and never got to hunt. It was very upsetting that we drove 8 hours to get to the hunt and wouldn't even be given a chance to hunt and make it count. The next night I drew out a local deer club with non hunting guides who had been taking coon hunters there every night for the past two weeks. My dog made the only tree that night in a grove of hemlocks, were I could not find the coon. I really felt like that was a wasted trip, and it was not fun at all. On the other hand I have taken advantage of being able to guide myself at bigger hunts and always bring in top scores rather I won the cast or not. 20 plus yrs ago The other KC had big hunts in my area and would draw close to 200 dogs. You had to be in the top 4 to get in the real money. My casts would often bring in 1200+. So every yr about a month before that hunt my phone would blow up guys wanting to hire me to guide them. 1200 + in the other KC is hard to do but I have turned in many cards with honest scores on them. I had it set up were that time of year you could patch hunt and have 2 or 3 split trees in under 5 min. Run in and score them in under 10 min and hit the next patch. The biggest challenge was beating the deadline, and we were hunting no farther than 20 min from the club. We were even hunting woods other guides were hunting as well. But I knew the best times to cut loose at each woods and from what direction to have the best chance to score coon. I personally would rather the Kc's keep different formats I don't like them to be the same. I really don't like that the rules are becoming too much alike. I liked the option we had before to hunt different rule settings and different formats.