UKC Forums - Lets talk some breeding

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-- Lets talk some breeding (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928298861)

Posted by Brent Peel on 02-08-2013 01:48 PM:

Another thing about the Little Pepper and Kate cross I think they all either won or placed at Major Hunts on there way to NtCh or GrNt.And Weed which was out of this cross would have been at least a NtCh if he had'nt have turned his stomach.

__________________
Brent Peel
Tenn-Mizz Kennel
423-562-7716 or 423-494-8030
2003 American Redbone Assoc.
Hunter of the Year
Home of:
GrNtCh PKC Ch 2x National GrNtCh English Ohio War NyHawk Co owned with Cody Sullivan

GrNtCh PKC Ch Dr Feelgood Co owned with Adam Huckaby
2016 Performance Points Runner Up Overall
2016 Performance Points Redbone Breed Winner
2016 American Redbone Days Overall Champion
1st Place NtCh & High Scoring Male Friday
1st Place NtCh & High Scoring Male Saturday
High Scoring Male Saturday 2014 American Redbone days Olney,IL.
1st Place RQE Marshall, Mo.
Double Cast Winner Winter Classic Batesville,Ms.
4th Place RQE Wartburg, TN.

GrNtCh Peels Burning River Rebel
2nd Place Reg. 2013 American Redbone Days

GrNtCh PKC CH Peel's Burning Pepper
2006 PKC Redbone Days Overall Champion

2005 American Redbone Days Overall Champion

ChGrNtCh PKCCh Stepp's Little Pepper
#1 Current Reproducer when he died
2003 US Redbone Days Overall
Champion
2003 American Redbone Days
Overall Champion
2002 US Redbone Days
Opposite Sex Champion
2002 American Redbone Days
Opposite Sex Champion
2001 Brooks Magill Memorial
Overall Champion
2000 NKC World Championship
19th Place Overall

GrChGrNtCh PKCCh Peel's Red Jewel II
1997 American Redbone Days
Opposite Sex Champion
1997 Brooks Magill Memorial Overall Champion

ChGrNtCh Peel's Red Pepper
ARCA Hall of Fame Member
1995 AKC World Championship High Scoring Redbone Male

Posted by Sawblade on 02-09-2013 12:44 PM:

The fastball

A few years ago there was a big post about breeding. One of the things that was talked about was taking a heavy linebred dog and then throw in a dog that is bred similar on either the top or bottom side but has an outcross on the opposite side. The outcross sire would be the "Fastball".
The best example of it I know of are some of the crosses they have made with Rabble Rouser .

RabbleRouser is out of Rat who was a result of a half/brother to sister cross with both being out of Go Man Sam,... Raven who is RR mother is also out of a half/brother to sister cross with Rusty Red being the sire top and bottom. Rusty Red was also out of GoMan Sam.

so lets say we had a female "Girl" who looked like this and we breed her to RabbleRouser
.........Rat
...RabbleRouser
.........Raven
....................Yellow River Rocky
.........Rowdy
....................Babbs Hazel
...Girl
....................Rat
.........Lexus
....................Raven

You can see that Rowdy would be the fast ball. This is the way I look at it othesr may say something different. This is an uncle to niece cross with an outcross sire on the bottom. It's not new.

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Posted by Sawblade on 02-09-2013 04:51 PM:

yep

Yea, What he said !!! see the Rabble Rouser not only was two half brother/sister crosses top and bottom it was also double uncle to niece cross if that makes any sense.
I don't like pudding much ,I'd rather have soup or better yet super-soup.
I'm wondering what cross is about to happen that might be close to some of these we have been talking about. Maybe we can start booking some pups . Anyone want to tell what they got in the works ??????? HMMMMM.

Posted by OUTLAW REDBONE on 02-09-2013 05:35 PM:

Talk Breeding

Not Booking puppy's yet...............

__________________
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Cecil "Buck" Ratliff

Dublin, Virginia
(540) 641-1623

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-09-2013 09:17 PM:

Re: Re: The fastball

quote:
Originally posted by mrg
I guess you may say, the proof is in the pudding.

I just love pudding. It is a lot sweeter than soup.

Posted by Goffj on 02-09-2013 09:38 PM:

Murdock

Gummy my Doc has fiddle on top and bottom. Not sure who she was bred too? You might know since you know his momma and daddy.

__________________
PR Pee Dee River Murdock

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-09-2013 09:38 PM:

Has anyone bred a Pepper Ann female back to her uncle Bo or Big D?

Posted by jbiggert on 02-10-2013 01:09 AM:

I THINK I HAVE ABOUT EVERY S CROSS NOT ALL YET BUT CLOSE.
I NEED TO TALK TO KELLY A LITTLE MORE TO SEE. RICHARD ANN WILL BE BRED TO HER SON OR TO HER GRAND SON SOON. YOU GOT ME ON HERE RICHARD . I THINK I HAVE 4 S CROSS. KNOW ONE IS KNOCKING THE DOOR DOWN. HA. HA. HA. HA.
P.S. I NEED A P.K.C. HANDLER FOR THE FIRST S.S. PUP THAT CAN WIN OUT OF A S CROSS. THE BEST I HAVE EVER EVER RAISED WORLD CLASS.JOHN

__________________
John Biggert

Males

1) Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Little Red - (Semen) (Gr. Nt. Yellow River Rocky X Nt. Ch. Gr. F Grw. Maggie)

2) Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Red Cloud - 4 Years Old (Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. To The Max X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

3) Nighty Nite T - (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight After Shock X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

Females

1) Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann - 9 Years Old (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Steps Little Pepper X Gr. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Moonlight Kate)

2) Gr. Ch. Nighty Nite Little Red Sky - 3 Years Old (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Outlaw Red Moon X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

Posted by Sawblade on 02-10-2013 04:44 AM:

John

What do you think John, does the S-Cross work?
I would say you have as many as about anyone but there are some sleepers out there that could be lined up with a little work .

also I would say that Mr.Swan may have a kennel full of females that could be the makings of some very impressive S-Cross litters. The future is looking pretty darn good if you ask me.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-10-2013 02:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jbiggert
........ THE BEST I HAVE EVER EVER RAISED.....

It took you long enough to get on here. I thought that might do it. You are the expert on supercrosses. The best that you have ever raised would have to be a heck of a hound. I will see you and Kelly in 4 more days. Are you going to bring your "notebook"?

Posted by jbiggert on 02-10-2013 03:51 PM:

YES KELLY IT DID WORK HES 8 MOUNTHS . TIME WILL TELL. RICHARD ARE TRIP DOWN MAY NOT HAPPEN THREE DOGS ARE LOST DOWN THERE FOR THREE DAYS AND ONE IS MINE. IF NOT FOUND SOON IT WILL BE A SON MOTHER CROSS.I HOPE WE FIND THEM VERY SOON......NOW YOU KNOW WHY MY GR.NT.STUDS ARE NOT HUNTED...........THIS WILL BE A BIG BIG BIG WHOLE IN MY BREEDING PRO. AGAIN ...JOHN

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-10-2013 04:08 PM:

I see where a 13 mos old product of a super super linebred cross got a first place finish this weekend. Maybe it does work. Nt Ch Dark Timber Chicken Foot also got her 4 Nt Ch win this weekend. She is the product of a super outcross, Gr Nt Haze X Gr Nt Long Tall Sally. Both Haze and Sally are the product of a supercross also. After Chick gets her last win, she will be bred to her Uncle...one of the supercross males out of Rabble. I think that this is an example of "fastball" breeding.

Posted by bridger80 on 02-10-2013 11:45 PM:

Does anyone have anymore examples of a dog with the sire of the sire being the grandsire of the dame. or equivalent.

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(GRNITECH GRCH 'COPELAND'S RED HOT CLYDE & 'PR'SWANN'S LONESOME LITTLE LUCY)
Ladner's Inspector Westin

Posted by mmarshall on 02-11-2013 01:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bridger80
Does anyone have anymore examples of a dog with the sire of the sire being the grandsire of the dame. or equivalent.

.......little pepper
......rocky top jet
........Kate
Pups
..............doc
..........Bo
............kate
.....sis
..............little pepper
..........pepper Ann
...............kate

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

Posted by Sawblade on 02-11-2013 01:48 AM:

Famous Amos

Famous Amos was bred this way, his mother Bell was the result of a half brother/sister cross with TimberChopper being the sire to both. Bell was then bred to a son of TC who also happened to be a full brother to Bells mother. So his father was hts uncle to.

Another really tight bred dog is Terry's Twist'in Lighting. His mother is a dog named Cootchie Brown. She is the result of a mother to son cross. They then took Cootchie and bred her to her half brother.WOW

Posted by Larry D Walker on 02-11-2013 04:10 PM:

HERE'S an 11 month old dart

SOLO PUP

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Indiana

812-327-8224

Posted by BLOODTTS on 02-11-2013 08:41 PM:

Supercross

**** kinda a new too these posts so may a new thread lol. anyway could someone please explain to me what a supercoss is?
This Stuff is facinating! Also how come I can't delete a post I made?

Posted by Sawblade on 02-11-2013 10:53 PM:

mrg

I have been trying to look back into some of the first s-cross dogs the breed had and looks like most them were outcrosses that just fit and produced. the interesting thing is to see how some of those early s-cross dogs continued on until today . Not all produced S-cross results on every litter but if you really look at the numbers when you linebred on those early S-cross dogs it would appear that those litters had better results than taking an s-cross and breeding to another outcross dog. It's important to say that even 15 years ago we didn't have litters producing 4 and 5 or more titled dogs . If you could get 3 you were way ahead of the average. just look a some of the first top reproducers list from 10years ago. The numbers are going up the dogs are producing better. It is a slow process. Maybe folks could help by listing any dogs they have that might be considered an S-cross. Lets say if the cross produced 3 or more titled dogs it could be considered a success and worth listing. Who's got what. and what was the cross.

Posted by redpower on 02-11-2013 11:21 PM:

Guitar s Ghost x Tree Talkin Sister

Don t know if it is a super cross or just a shot in the dark. This litter of eleven, eight living, has three nitech and two more that could title if put in the hunts.

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Posted by redpower on 02-11-2013 11:24 PM:

Re: Supercross

quote:
Originally posted by BLOODTTS
**** kinda a new too these posts so may a new thread lol. anyway could someone please explain to me what a supercoss is?
This Stuff is facinating! Also how come I can't delete a post I made?

Go what you wantto delete click edit and then at the top of the page that comes up click delete on the left side and then click delete now on the top right.

Posted by tylerman on 02-11-2013 11:47 PM:

here is a dandy cross...I had no imput on it but see the results
......grntch little pepper-back to grntch peels red pepper
..grntch tree burning moses
......grntch peels red jewel-back to grntch peels red pepper
pup
......grntch little pepper-back to grntch peels red pepper
..grntch pepper ann
......grntch kate

here is a cross I made that the dogs are doing well with avg hunters...have ntch and others with wins and expecting more ntchs

......ntch yellow river doc
..ntch desperado
......cowgirl
pup
......yellow river red diesel-outa doc
..collins neon red queen
......yellow river fiddle II-outa doc and sawblade fiddle

and another I expect some good ones from

......grntch little pepper
..grntch peels burning pepper
......grntch kate
pup
......yellow river red diesel-outa doc
..collins neon red queen
......yellow river fiddle II-outa doc and sawblade fiddle

I expect to see some dandys here too

......grntch little pepper
..grntch peels burning pepper
......grntch kate

......ntch yellow river doc
..ntch desperado
......cowgirl
pup
......yellow river red diesel-outa doc
..collins neon red queen
......yellow river fiddle II-outa doc and sawblade fiddle

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NT CH. CH. PR NEON RED FIRM FANNY -(gr.nt.ch grch Hard Rock/ntch snakeden hollow Jane)

NT CH PR COLLINS NEON RED DOC DA QUEENY -grch ntch desperado/queen

NT CH SH CH pr 3D

NTCH PR Rocky Top Neon Red Cayenne-grntch peels burning pepper/dykes tn. red autumn

NTCH pr Mosquito Creek Faith-grntch squeller/mosquito creek red rose

NTCH pr Neon Red Barnyard Hot Tody....grntch harry x grntch toadie

NTCH pr Peels Neon Red Nuclear Pepper

Neon Red Stump...Grntch barnyard horse Harry x Ntch rockytop neon red Cayenne

Neon Red Blood ...grntch barnyard gun

Neon Red Doc Tody...ntch yellow river doc x ntch neon red hot tody

Newby...ntch 3D x Ntch rockytop neon red Cayenne

Posted by tylerman on 02-11-2013 11:54 PM:

then...
the Rocker and Roxy cross is a beautiful thing

......Grntch little pepper
Grntch Rocker
......Grntch kate
pups
......grntch Ice?
..Ntch roxy
......grntch jackpot jackie

and sometime in the near future

either grntch pepper or ntch bill or one of the grntch moses x grntch pepper ann males

......grntch bigtime bo
..bonnie
......grntch kate

Posted by Sawblade on 02-12-2013 03:10 AM:

Jim

Reproducers. That cross is loaded up with some of the strongest reproducing females. Maggie, kate, PepperAnn, Jessie ,Autum .That's not even looking at the males.
You can't really say that is an outcross. This is an excellent example of what I always called "soup" ...put the best ingrediants in it and try to have them tied together as best as you can... cool.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-12-2013 02:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Have One Reds
Open pedigree dogs:Ramblin Red Ace x Ramblin Red Kate

Yes, Ace was one of the top reproducers but he was the product of a full littermate brother/sister cross. He was inbred Timber Chopper. He is a fine example of a prepotent sire.

Posted by riproarinkennel on 02-12-2013 03:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Yes, Ace was one of the top reproducers but he was the product of a full littermate brother/sister cross. He was inbred Timber Chopper. He is a fine example of a prepotent sire.

THAT MEANS HIS PAPERS ARE BOGUS. WONDER HOW MANY MORE PREPOTENT SIRES HAVE BOGUS PAPERS ??? WHEN BREEDIN' PAPERS, YOU BETTER KNOW THE BREEDER AS WELL AS THE DOG. JMO, OF COURSE.

SEE YOU AT THE NEXT TREE.
- DR. GUMMY

P.S. DNA TESTING DOESN'T SCARE ME.

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