UKC Forums - Team Pepsi's Outlaw/Moonlight Redbones

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- Redbones: Stud Dog and Kennel Promotion (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=59)
-- Team Pepsi's Outlaw/Moonlight Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928273495)

Posted by mmarshall on 12-08-2012 10:24 PM:

The trait I'm seeing a lot determination to get under a coon as fast as they can how ever they have to do it winding tracking split or take another dogs track and tree ahead of them
The name of the game is score more points then the other dogs Kate had the ability to get all hers and a big chunk of yours
Got one here that I won't start till spring that has Kate's personality to the tee as a pup

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

Posted by Paul Frederick on 12-11-2012 05:26 PM:

Okaw Valley Outlaw Annie

This is kind of a blast from the past too but I thought I'd share my Outlaw Redbone story. This has only been a few years ago but seems like a lifetime now looking back.

I was at the Geff, IL dog trade looking for a young dog or something to mess with. I was getting into Redbones and an old dog trader had a 7 or 8 year old Redbone female he was trying to sell. I didn't know much about Redbone bloodlines but her papers looked pretty good so I got him down to $100 and took her home. I figured she'd at least tree with another dog so I'd have something to take with my buddies.

I got to hunting this old dog and she was a coon dog. She was a little older so she had lost some but not a ton. Her biggest fault was she would keep checking herself and locating until she was 100% sure she had the coon. On one hand it was great, she was about 95% or better accurate, but on the other hand, in the cold of winter she may be checking herself for 10 minutes before she rolled over to a chop. My buddy had a Walker who slick treed a fair amount and she would not back him if it was slick no matter what. I saw her, on more than one occasion, fall treed about 50 foot from the Walker and him be slick and her have the coon.

I ended up getting busy with life (newly married with a kid) and work (truck driver) and couldn't hunt her so I sold Annie to Stanley Morris out in MO. He bred her once to Wild Willy but I don't know what came of that cross. Later tonight if I can get some pictures of her up I'll put them on here. I'll put her pedigree at the bottom of this so you can see why I really love the Outlaw bred Redbones. I've been hunting Plotts the last couple years but seeing all these Outlaw/Moonlight dogs go might get me back over to the Red side!

-----------GRNITECH CH Pr Dawn's Timber Jack

------NITECH PR Craft's Outlaw Jack

-----------GRNITECH PR Key's Outlaw Jessie

--GRNITECH PR Hardup Josey Wales

-----------GRCH GRNITECH PR Outlaw Bill the Kid

------PR Thomae's Little Ann

-----------NITECH PR Shirleys Sneaky Diamond Ann

PR Okaw Valley Outlaw Annie

-----------GRNITECH GRCH Amos' Burning Ben

------GRCH GRNITECH PR Outlaw Billy the Kid

-----------GRNITECH PR Key's Outlaw Jessie

-PR Outlaw Red Rose

-----------NITECH PR Smith's Red Oak Dexter

------GRNITECH PR Holmes' Rose

-----------PR Hicks' W. VA. Red Lucy

__________________
Paul Frederick
319-371-6362

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 12-11-2012 05:49 PM:

Thanks for posting Paul. There is plenty of room in this breed for a fan of Outlaw Redbones As with many strains, they started to get watered down with alot of out crosses over the years....but we are trying to use that history lesson as a tool and look back over the out crosses that worked (and many that didn't) and bring back this great line of redbones, and the traits that made them accurate coon dogs, big winners, and fond memory makers. Annie had some of the best Outlaw dogs from the past right up close in her pedigree top and bottom. Thanks for sharing your memories of her and I hope to meet you when our paths eventually cross down the road.....Shane

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by nickkauffman on 12-11-2012 06:01 PM:

Shane

Have moonlight dogs always been outlaw, or the other way around, or is it a combination of two strains?

Posted by Paul Frederick on 12-11-2012 06:39 PM:

Shane you have a pm.

__________________
Paul Frederick
319-371-6362

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 12-11-2012 07:48 PM:

Re: Shane

quote:
Originally posted by nickkauffman
Have moonlight dogs always been outlaw, or the other way around, or is it a combination of two strains?

Key's Outlaw Jessie was the mother of the Outlaw strain. Billy the Kid was one of her famous offspring. The first female I ever bred to Billy produced Gr.Nt.Ch. Wapsi River Cookie who then produced Moonlight Kate. Moonlight Kate is the mother of the Moonlight strain.
So both strains really have the same origins

With the miracle of frozen semen, we have been able to breed some of the best Moonlight females back directly to Outlaw Billy the Kid and further concentrate the blood that carries the traits that made this line of dogs great coon dogs and big winners in competition. Our breeding program centers around concentrated line breeding with an occasional outcross to add in or strengthen a desired trait. I hope that answers your question NIck. Thanks for the interest....Shane

Posted by nickkauffman on 12-11-2012 08:11 PM:

Re: Re: Shane

Answers my question perfectly... I guess it was what I was thinking... I just wasn't sure how Kate and Billy were related... It sounds like a solid breeding program...

Posted by cooter_hunter on 12-11-2012 10:31 PM:

I think it's awesome how many people are starting to realize the quality of dogs in the moonlight blood but the other day I saw a post on a website talking about the moonlight kennel from Alabama...so I gotta give credit were credit is due Shane's done an awesome job with Rogers dogs but Dan and his handlers are the ones who picked and trained these dogs from pups the moonlight blood and name is still from Dan Biggert who owned or bred about 95% of the big named moonlight dogs so to me that's amazing from Kate on down every one of the "favorites" of everyone in this post from the real moonlight blood not Rogers rip off kennel all started in the same yard! Maybe insted of asking Rogers handlers about the blood...asking the only man who really knows. Oh and Shane I got one of those pups from Kate and billy how's the rest if the litter doing?

__________________
Jesse Boley
Check us out at "moonlight redbones" on facebook

Posted by k jordan on 12-12-2012 01:03 AM:

paul

that mustve been a good cross. hard to beat fanny was outta josey whales n red rose also. $kc breed leader 2004.

__________________
home of
bloodsheds screamin warhorse(steve-o x coppertop jenny)
Nt.ch.bloodsheds outlaw breeze (billy the kid x bree)
bloodsheds outlaw to the max (jessie james jj x billy jean)
proud lifetime member of the NRA
812 621 2384

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 12-12-2012 03:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by cooter_hunter
I think it's awesome how many people are starting to realize the quality of dogs in the moonlight blood but the other day I saw a post on a website talking about the moonlight kennel from Alabama...so I gotta give credit were credit is due Shane's done an awesome job with Rogers dogs but Dan and his handlers are the ones who picked and trained these dogs from pups the moonlight blood and name is still from Dan Biggert who owned or bred about 95% of the big named moonlight dogs so to me that's amazing from Kate on down every one of the "favorites" of everyone in this post from the real moonlight blood not Rogers rip off kennel all started in the same yard! Maybe insted of asking Rogers handlers about the blood...asking the only man who really knows. Oh and Shane I got one of those pups from Kate and billy how's the rest if the litter doing?

I guess I didn't see the post you are talking about Jessie, but I have never heard Rodger take any credit for the 3 Moonlight dogs he now owns. But I will give Rodger Shabel the credit he deserves because alot of people may not realize it...but he had a hand in the Moonlight line of dogs eventually being reproduced.
You see I raised and trained Billy and he was Kate's grand dad....but if you look even further back Rodger Shabel owned Famous Amos who was Billy's grand dad. Famous Amos was the sire of both Billy's father, Burning Ben.....who was also the father of Kate's sire, Saline River Ratt. So actually, with Kate being heavy Famous Amos both top (through Ratt) and bottom (through Billy) Rodger's Amos dog played a very big role in Kate's breeding.
Alton Key, myself and several others really got behind the Outlaw dogs early on and showed what they could do....but before us there were guys like Rodger Shabel and Roger Gibson who showed what the Amos dogs could do.....and then more recently there is Danny Biggert, Mark Marshall, Dave Gallaher, Todd Mathewson, and many other handlers who showed what the decendents of the Amos and Outlaw dogs could do in the strain they put their touch on called the Moonlight dogs. Another important person who fits in with this group and has been very influential with his breeding program is John Biggert. He promotes an offshoot of the line Kate made famous through his Nighty Night line which is also a big winning line who shares common ancestry with all the dogs mentioned above. I am just happy to be part of (even if it's only a small part) what is going on in the redbone breed ...in the past, and in the present. Good luck with your pup Jessie and I will see you and Spud in the winners circle

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-12-2012 03:36 PM:

Re: Re: Shane

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
With the miracle of frozen semen, we have been able to breed some of the best Moonlight females back directly to Outlaw Billy the Kid and further concentrate the blood that carries the traits that made this line of dogs great coon dogs and big winners in competition. Our breeding program centers around concentrated line breeding with an occasional outcross to add in or strengthen a desired trait.....Shane

I have been wondering what "the plan" was.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 12-12-2012 09:28 PM:

Rome wasn't built in a day....lol

Posted by Paul Frederick on 12-15-2012 11:16 PM:

A few years ago I bought nearly every Redbone special issue of Coonhound Bloodlines off a guy on eBay. They've really helped me learn a lot about Redbones and see the history. I got the box out tonight and just happened to pick up the '93 edition. This is the issue that has Shane's article about Outlaw Billy the Kid and Key's Outlaw Timber Girl. I found this ad in there as well that I thought everyone would like to see:

__________________
Paul Frederick
319-371-6362

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 12-16-2012 12:35 AM:

Thanks for the memories Paul.

Posted by mmarshall on 12-22-2012 02:56 PM:

Been a lot of ? Comments on here and I've got several Pms reasons why this line does so well in larger hunts over and over gen after gen some thinks its money some say we only let top handlers have pups
Well it's simple top handlers want top coondogs they want dogs with traits that give them the best chance to win and they don't waist there money on some thing that won't win any where they take it they don't care who has it they will get some of it so I guess they proved it to the right type of coonhunters
I've been blessed over my life time to be around several top lines of dogs of many colors clover, night heat, lonepine, bad to the bone they have one thing in common they drew in top handlers because they proved it in the bigger hunts
Give top handlers what they want is the answer

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-22-2012 05:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
some thinks its money some say we only let top handlers have pups. Give top handlers what they want is the answer

Of course, you have to have money and you have to be a good handler but, my goodness, the most important thing is to have a good dog. All of the money and handling skills in the world won't do you any good if you don't have the right dog! I thought that everyone realized this. Do you mean that there are some people out there that don't? Mr Marshall, do y'all go out looking for "top handlers" or do they come to you?

Posted by mmarshall on 12-22-2012 06:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Do you mean that there are some people out there that don't? Mr Marshall, do y'all go out looking for "top handlers" or do they come to you? [/B]

Top hounds men know top talent when they see it and it don't take them many drops with one to know and as you know they are few and far between if you don't get out of your back yard you may never see one so they just figure there hound is as good as the proven one so the excuse is it got special treatment but they never think why did that dog get special treatment or its pups
If you have the rep or have one they will come find you if you don't want to sell don't price it lol ask Dutch what kind of offers he was gave on jet by some of the best in $kc not only to buy jet but just to let them handle him
Shane knew where to look after twenty years

Posted by Sawblade on 12-22-2012 09:16 PM:

chicken or the egg

Mark is right ,this is not a question of what comes first a top dog or a top handler. the top dog always comes first, the handler comes next and gets to take the glory. Some even get to be known as a top handler and it was really all the dog.

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 12-23-2012 03:46 PM:

Re: chicken or the egg

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Mark is right ,this is not a question of what comes first a top dog or a top handler. the top dog always comes first, the handler comes next and gets to take the glory. Some even get to be known as a top handler and it was really all the dog.

Some top handlers buy or are paid to handle good dogs.....and some top breeders and trainers consistently raise and train some of the best dogs and then handle them or place them with other top handlers.
It is much harder to raise and train your own and then win with them than it is to scour the country and buy a top dog and then win with it. The best breeders and trainers who consistently turn out big winners are not lucky....they have a skill. There really aren't that many people in this breed that have a consistent record of doing that litter after litter, generation after generation.
Those are the people I look to when I want a pup or to breed a female. They have proven themselves to be more than lucky.
Like Mark said......the best handlers will always search out the best dogs.
If you build it.....they will come

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-23-2012 03:54 PM:

Re: chicken or the egg

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Some even get to be known as a top handler and it was really all the dog.

Posted by mmarshall on 12-24-2012 01:58 PM:

So it's not just me top dogs and top dog men usually go hand and hand the dog would be number 1 priority in winning a lot at the bigger hunts

Posted by mmarshall on 12-28-2012 11:05 PM:

So two top handlers met today to get two top dogs bred today would this be a high scoring world hunt cross or a breed winning purina race cross or a top reproducers list cross or a red days over all cross or just top coondog to top coondog off top coondogs off top coondogs cross Danny did his home work on this cross

Posted by Sawblade on 12-29-2012 03:11 PM:

Me too

Yea Mark, your talking in code. There's too many folks on this board that do that,you don't want to catch that bug..Who Is Who.
How are we suppose to learn how to line these dogs up if ya keep it a secret all the time. LOL

Posted by mmarshall on 12-29-2012 03:36 PM:

Shock x ky Kate

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-29-2012 05:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
Danny did his home work on this cross

Yes he did. First 2 out crosses were made on Kate and then 2 of the top 1/2 brother/sisters were crossed back together. Now what did we decide to call that?

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