UKC Forums - Lets talk some breeding

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-12-2013 03:51 PM:

Another fine example of "Fastball" breeding, this cross was just made......It is easy to see that Jake is the "fastball" here. He was not only a top hound but also came from a "supercross" as he has several very nice brothers/sisters. Also Faith is a nice hound that has several very nice littermates.

.........................Rat
................Rabble
..................................Bomber
.........................Raven
...................................Bell
.......Haze
.........................Bomber
.................Pigeon
.........................Bell
..pups
..........................Buck
..................Sandy Creek Jake
..........................Rose
......Faith
...........................Rat
..................Lexus
...........................Raven

Posted by Trinket clark on 02-12-2013 04:00 PM:

Great reading,

Hello to all, I hunt old style walkers but I have to say this is one of the most interesting threads on this UKC board...I wish all the walker guys would put this much thought in there breeding programs,and if they do I wish they would post it like you all do so we all could learn from it...Thanks for all the good info!
Just wanted to say its nice seeing a group of guys from all over working together to improve the breed...Good luck and Good hunting to all!

__________________
Jason Clark
Home of over 25 yrs of Line bred Brookshier hounds!
Home of Line bred Durbins Rambler Hounds and heavy line bred Rolling Hills hounds.

~Where a man's word still means something & a handshake is all We need!!!

~Grntch Chestnut Grove Ben Semen(Full Brother to Uplinger's Joe & Son of Logan's Wild Clover x Sandy Creek Daisy) Not For Sale - Frank Hummel/Jason Clark

~Grntch Hardwood Whiner/Rolling Hills Hunter Semen(Son of Durbin's Rambler x Rolling Hills Jane) Not For Sale

~Dual ch.Brookshiers Finley River Driver(2007 Walker days 1st place & high scoring walker male sat) (Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~3 Wins to Grand, Nitch Clark's Mr.Wilson HTX(Driver x Cane River Cry Babe) Qualified 2014, 2016 UKC World Hunt
~Brookshier's Finley River Salty (Grntch. Brookshier's Finley River Sting x Cane River Trudy,Trudy is a Littermate to Wilson and Sassy)
~Brookshier's Finley River Sniper (Driver x Kraviks Babe) Uncle niece cross
~Brookshier's Finley River Momba (Driver X Kraviks Babe) Uncle Niece Cross
~Nitch Cane River Sassy (Driver x Cane River Cry Babe)Qualified 2012 UKC World Hunt
~Clark's Finley River Spot(Finley River Zig x Ramblin Jane) Winer and Ramblin Jane are Brother&Sister
~Clark's Rolling Hills Skinner (Grntch Hardwood Winer x Clark's Finley River Spot)
~Nitch Brookshier's Crosscountry Gert. (Uncle Lee x Crosscountry music) Daughter of Lone Pine Dewey
~Nitch Brookshier's Finley River Viper(Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~Brookshier's Fullblown Rage (Uncle Lee x Finley River Molly ) Daughter of F.R. Lonnie x Fulkerson's F.R. Suzy
~Clark's Little River (Grntch Shoemakers Gator x Grntch Shoemakers Lou
~Brookshier's Otter Creek Dan (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Little Lady (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Penns. Scooby (Denny Burn's Willie x Backwater Kate ,Uncle Lee's mother)

Posted by Trinket clark on 02-12-2013 04:27 PM:

Not color blind.

Just wanted to say some of the best dogs I've been in the woods with was Red in color,and there owners great men...I've pleasure hunted with Ed Brown and Old Twister,Darren Gher and a lot of his dogs (great man),Jeff Murphy and a lot of his dogs (great man)...Harry Omedieun (Rocky,Rocket,Doc,)...Wayne Newell the old music female that won autumn oaks,nice female....and have talked with Kelly Hyde on several occasions ,super nice guy...
After reading this its a wonder I don't run Red Dogs,hahaha...All great hounds and great men..
Sorry for budding in on your post, just thought you all should know its been a pleasure reading, and seeing all the comrodery you all still have, just like the old days...

Ps. And to all my old hunting buddy's in Illinois ,I really miss hunting with you guys! Thanks for letting a walker man hunt with all red dogs for so many years. You all made me feel like I was part of your family...Hope you all raise world beaters and spank them walkers....hahaha...Good hunting!

Posted by Pastor Mike on 02-12-2013 06:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Another fine example of "Fastball" breeding, this cross was just made......It is easy to see that Jake is the "fastball" here. He was not only a top hound but also came from a "supercross" as he has several very nice brothers/sisters. Also Faith is a nice hound that has several very nice littermates.

.........................Rat
................Rabble
..................................Bomber
.........................Raven
...................................Bell
.......Haze
.........................Bomber
.................Pigeon
.........................Bell
..pups
..........................Buck
..................Sandy Creek Jake
..........................Rose
......Faith
...........................Rat
..................Lexus
...........................Raven

I wish I could say that it has already been made.......Haze says it's time.....Faith says no way....

. Hopefully by the weekend. Buck will have to handle putting them together while I'm gone to Southern. I am looking forward to this cross so much that I'm getting two pups.

__________________
Soggy Bottom Redbones

GRNTCH GRCH 'PR' Soggy Bottom The Frog Dawg (current reproducers list)
NTCH CH Soggy Bottom The Bull Dawg
Soggy Bottom T-Top Miss Dottie
RIP
GRNTCH GRCH Soggy Bottom T-Top Haze HTX (Former#1 Reproducer)
CH Soggy Bottom T-Top Stella
GRNTCH GRCH Soggy Bottom T-Top Shadow
NTCH CH Soggy Bottom Bomber's Red Wire (Pigeon- former #1 Reproducer)
NTCH GRCH Red Cedar T-Top Lexus
CH Soggy Bottom T-Top Locket

Mike Laster
540-392-2441
pastorlaster@aol.com

Posted by Sawblade on 02-12-2013 10:03 PM:

Haze/Faith

Your probably going to like that cross. Sandy Creek Jake seems to throw a pretty good fastball.

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Posted by mmarshall on 02-13-2013 09:33 PM:

***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Betsy
*****Grnt jj
***************Grnt red oak mike
**********Grnt outlaw Jessie
***************Grnt graves bear creek ruby
*****Grnt glissons outlaw jjjr
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Bets
*****Grnt wrights girlII
***************Grnt timber jack
**********Grnt outlaw timber girl
***************Grnt outlaw Jessie
PUPS
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Betsy
******Grnt outlaw billy the kid
***************Grnt red oak mike
**********Grnt outlaw Jessie
***************Grnt graves bear creek ruby
*****Ntch outlaw billy jean
***************Grnt timber jack
**********Grnt too the max
***************Grnt Jenkins crying katie
*****Grnt nighty night amber
***************Grnt little pepper
**********Grnt moonlight pepper Ann
***************Grnt nighty night moonlight Kate
Bj is in heat now cross should be done in a week or so
line breeding on a few super crosses will be super staked

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

Posted by Sawblade on 02-13-2013 10:53 PM:

wow

Mark, Those pups should be ready to breed to about anything and get some results.
I hope folks can really take a good look at a lot of the different lines that are being concentrated and take advantage of it. If someone wanted to start from scratch and just get into breeding, there is no better time than now.

Posted by beeman on 02-14-2013 12:17 AM:

shane wants them pups to go to serious competition hunters that will make them the best they can be he isnt looking at getting rich all hes trying to do is make some top notch red dogs to compete with the best. Shane will be watching the board and will keep a list of those that are seriously interested

__________________
Grntch PR Beebout's Skuna River Tramp
Grntch PR Bears Skuna River Kate
Grntch Pkc Silver Ch Catch This
Ntch Pr Skuna River Hannah
Grntch Pkc Silver Ch Skuna River Fatality
Grntch Pkc Silver Ch Skuna River Traveling Gypsy
Pkc Ch Set Em Up Peppy

Posted by Larry D Walker on 02-14-2013 04:52 PM:

EXPERTS OPINION

THIS FEMALE HAS ALOT OF WHAT THE BREED IS LACKING, HUNT,DRIVE, HEART and that no quit spirit, and I would like for yall Mike, Kelly and some others take a look an see if she is bred to reproduce, and is she ready to be outcrossed Please take a look.

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Posted by Paul Frederick on 02-14-2013 05:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Betsy
*****Grnt jj
***************Grnt red oak mike
**********Grnt outlaw Jessie
***************Grnt graves bear creek ruby
***Grnt glissons outlaw jjjr
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Bets
*****Grnt wrights girlII
***************Grnt timber jack
**********Grnt outlaw timber girl
***************Grnt outlaw Jessie
PUPS
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Betsy
******Grnt outlaw billy the kid
***************Grnt red oak mike
**********Grnt outlaw Jessie
***************Grnt graves bear creek ruby
***Ntch outlaw billy jean
***************Grnt timber jack
**********Grnt too the max
***************Grnt Jenkins crying katie
*****Grnt nighty night amber
***************Grnt little pepper
**********Grnt moonlight pepper Ann
***************Grnt nighty night moonlight Kate
Bj is in heat now cross should be done in a week or so
line breeding on a few super crosses will be super staked

Wow. That's all I have to say. This is a cross that is going to make an impact. We'll be hearing about these pups for sure!

__________________
Paul Frederick
319-371-6362

Posted by Sawblade on 02-14-2013 05:42 PM:

No expert here

Larry I would say she is ready for an outcross and I would look at your Joe dog. This female is really heavy Twister bred, he crossed good with Music and she is a full sister to Pattersons Deluxe Buster as well as having some pokey Bill breeding in her so I would guess you breeding this female to Joe would give good results also. It would be a simular type of cross . No expert here just like to see good redbones.

Posted by Larry D Walker on 02-14-2013 06:29 PM:

Re: No expert here

Thanks Kelly,

He came here last night and just left a few minutes ago, He wanted to see Joe go. We made 6 drops last night with Joe alone.He treed 6 times, 3 of those trees he was 1 mile plus when he struck. He had 5 singles and one double the man said we will for sure make this cross as soon as she comes in. I just wanted to get another opinion. I think it will be a really good cross

Thanks For Looking. I hope mike runs some numbers.

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Larry I would say she is ready for an outcross and I would look at your Joe dog. This female is really heavy Twister bred, he crossed good with Music and she is a full sister to Pattersons Deluxe Buster as well as having some pokey Bill breeding in her so I would guess you breeding this female to Joe would give good results also. It would be a simular type of cross . No expert here just like to see good redbones.

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Posted by Larry D Walker on 02-16-2013 02:22 PM:

Thanks Mike

Both Twiggy and Joe have what you and I want in a dog. I am very excited about this cross, I drew her one night in 2011 at american days and she beat my rebel dog. Thanks for putting this together this cross will be made soon, better put your name on the list.

Thanks Larry

quote:
Originally posted by mrg
this is the numbers on twiggy

Coefficient for FEMALE

Inbreeding: 0.21875 (21.875%)
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient): 64.285714285714%
The computation has been done for 3 generations

Inbreeding contribution by acenstor
BUSTER 2 0.125 (12.5%)
COOTCHIE BROWN 0.0625 (6.25%)
BUSTER 1 0.03125 (3.125%)

as you can see her inbreeding coefficient is at 21.87%, ... if i had of went out one more generation it would have been closer to 25%. she rates up there with a father daughter cross in her coefficient so she is without doubt ready for an outcross by this measure.

her avk is closing in on 64.28% so her gene pool is narrowing toward th 50% mark and if we add more generations to the ped it would have been tighter than it appears now. when it narrows to this degree,... 50 to 60....... you need to add new blood.

Inbreeding contribution by acenstor
as you can see buster 2 has the greatest influence in the gene pool because he is the dog linebred to closer up in the pedigree. yes, buster 1 is in the ped 3 times in the third generation,... but,.... he is linebred to farther back in the ped so he would have a lesser influence. this is something that we all can learn from. the dog that is linebred to closer up in the ped always takes precidence over the dogs linebred to farther back in the ped.

NOW the phenotype [ traits ]
this is what i have been told===== buster 1 had no reverse, buster 2 the same way, i don't know about the brown female,.... these traits are dislplayed evidently in this this female that we are examining..... the same for your joe dog so this should be a very good outcross. this female should be prepotent and will dominate the cross ....but the phenotype of joe will be extremely important in this type of cross also.

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Posted by ewry20 on 02-16-2013 04:02 PM:

Thanks mrg i was interested myself to see the results, shes the heaviest line breed dog i have owned and sounds like its going to be a good idea to breed out.

__________________
Robert Ewry
765-716-8913

Posted by Sawblade on 02-18-2013 09:20 PM:

learned it all

No more comments , maybe we have learned it all...LOL LOL LOL

Posted by Preston Owens on 02-18-2013 10:57 PM:

Re: learned it all

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
No more comments , maybe we have learned it all...LOL LOL LOL

Sawblade, Im waiting on Richard to come back to this thread.. It is very interesting to see different opinions and I will add I respect every single one. I hope my posting on this thread dont shut it down

__________________
~I use my real name so im not confused with others~

Posted by outlawgirl on 02-19-2013 01:27 AM:

pup of a lifetime

I am very excited to be on the waiting list for a JJ Jr &Billy Jean pup. I am looking forward to promoting a dog in the hunts from a bloodline that I believe in. I know that if you are a serious coon hunter and are as passionate about this pedigree as I am that you could be on this waiting list as well. It is not about who you are or who can pay the most, it's about what you would do for the pup of a lifetime. Always an Outlaw Girl....Lisa Key

Posted by mboyce on 02-19-2013 01:54 AM:

sawblade

Sent you a pm..thanks marcus

__________________
Home of :
GRCH GRHBCH Boyce's Loko Go Gingersnap "Ginger"
HBCH GRCH Boyce's Loko Go Boomerang "Boomer"
HBCH Boyce's Loko Go "Rocket"
HBCH Zirkle's Loko Go "Rebel" 4th place UKC Nationals 2006
CH HBCH Boyce's Loko All Jacked Up "Jack"
Boyce's Loko GO with the "Flo"
Future Prospects:
Boyce's Loko Cinnoman "Candy"
Boyce's Loko Go Turbo

Posted by Bretzel on 02-19-2013 02:06 AM:

OUTLAW CROSS

I would say this should be an outstanding cross...but i never got the opportunity to hunt with any of these dogs. From following the posts it appears that BJ is a cooner. I said I dont have experience with these dogs but I do have experience with pups out of JJ Jr. My buddy Dusty Hampton took his Bomber female, Jewel, and crossed her to JJ Jr semen about 6 yrs ago. Jewel was a cooner, who had 4 wins toward grnite, that got me started wanting a redbone. With that one more win this cross would've been a 3 gen full grnite cross I believe. Dusty kept a male pup out of this cross and we hunted him until he was about 8 months old. He was the LOUDEST tree dog anyone around here that I know of had ever been in the woods with. He split treed with his first coon a few days shy of 6 months if memory serves me. He had never even really been hunted. He just ran loose around the farm with Jewel and one nite we could hear him from the house treed. He stayed until we got there and we treated him with some fur. This male pup later became known as Reptile Red. Dusty sold another pup to one of our buddy, a female. I hunt with her about 2-3 times a week. She is a coondog. Her owner never competition hunts and she isn't titled but she is a coondog. She too has run loose for most of her life on a big farm and taught herself most everything she knows. I talked my buddy into putting her in some hunts and she has a first place now and will be finished easily. I have done alot of typing to get to my point, I have been very impressed with the JJ Jr pups I have been in the woods with. I have been on this msg board for a few years now and the redbone breed seems to be gaining steam. There are several of these bloodlines that seem to be winning on a consistent basis. I dont know how a pup out of this litter wouldn't fit into anyones breeding program. I might be wrong here but wouldn't a pup out of this cross be a good candidate for an outcross to one of these other TOP reproducing lines assuming the traits you desire match up? Maybe MRG will give us the answer.

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Betsy
*****Grnt jj
***************Grnt red oak mike
**********Grnt outlaw Jessie
***************Grnt graves bear creek ruby
*****Grnt glissons outlaw jjjr
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Bets
*****Grnt wrights girlII
***************Grnt timber jack
**********Grnt outlaw timber girl
***************Grnt outlaw Jessie
PUPS
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Betsy
******Grnt outlaw billy the kid
***************Grnt red oak mike
**********Grnt outlaw Jessie
***************Grnt graves bear creek ruby
*****Ntch outlaw billy jean
***************Grnt timber jack
**********Grnt too the max
***************Grnt Jenkins crying katie
*****Grnt nighty night amber
***************Grnt little pepper
**********Grnt moonlight pepper Ann
***************Grnt nighty night moonlight Kate
Bj is in heat now cross should be done in a week or so
line breeding on a few super crosses will be super staked

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 02-19-2013 02:50 AM:

OUTLAW CROSS

Well I have been out with some of these dogs in this pedigree-Amos, Betsy, Timber Jack-back in the 80ths ,They were coondogs back then and I bred a female to Timberjack that resulted in 2 ntch , and had a real nice male off of Amos that was a grch ntch and should of been a dual gr, about a year ago I was able to see the Amber female go, and I have a real nice littermate to Billyjean that is a ch with a couple of wins toward gr and plan on putting him in some hunts this year, and he's not 2years old yet. so with these lines loaded up I want in on one of these, I believe they could be some leaders for the Redbone breed. but whoever gets any of these wants to give it the very best chance to get all the natural ability out of them. count me in if you can please
and I agree that they very well could cross with some of these other top lines

__________________
Herschel Burt

hershtwo@yahoo.com
Life member NRA
Current dogs
GR CH NT CH RED MIGHTY 90-Bo/Sierra
NT.CH.GR CH BEYOND BILLY HTX --Billy the Kid/ Amber
GR CH 1ST & 2ND place wins 90/4 LIFE GUN-HTX==-Willy BOY/Bigtime Britt
Dogs I have owned
Nt ch Gr ch HERSHS HUNTIN RED IKE
NT CH CH HERSHS HUNTIN BUDDY
GR NT CH MILLERS DIRTY RED
NT CH CH LYNN'S CREEK JULIE
GR CH HERSHS HUNTIN RED KATE
CH NITE CH AMBRAW RIVER TIMBER ROCK
NT CH HERSHS HUNTIN RED CLEM
NT CH ROCKY TOP CHERRY

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-19-2013 03:14 PM:

Re: learned it all

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
No more comments , maybe we have learned it all...LOL LOL LOL

Now we just have to put it into practice.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-19-2013 09:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Betsy
*****Grnt jj
***************Grnt red oak mike
**********Grnt outlaw Jessie
***************Grnt graves bear creek ruby
*****Grnt glissons outlaw jjjr
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Bets
*****Grnt wrights little girl II
***************Grnt timber jack
**********Grnt outlaw timber girl
***************Grnt outlaw Jessie
PUPS
***************Grnt famous Amos
**********Grnt burning Ben
***************Grnt Betsy
******Grnt outlaw billy the kid
***************Grnt red oak mike
**********Grnt outlaw Jessie
***************Grnt graves bear creek ruby
*****Ntch outlaw billy jean
***************Grnt timber jack
**********Grnt too the max
***************Grnt Jenkins crying katie
*****Grnt nighty night amber
***************Grnt little pepper
**********Grnt moonlight pepper Ann
***************Grnt nighty night moonlight Kate
Bj is in heat now cross should be done in a week or so
line breeding on a few super crosses will be super staked

I have had enough phone calls, texts, emails, and pm's to place at least 2 big litters of female pups from this cross. Only a few expressed interest for a male pup. I am keeping a list...but its not first come first serve.....its best match for the pups....so If your interested and think you can give a pup like this the chance it deserves and that includes putting titles on it in competition if it can win...then express your interest and I will put you on the list. After the pups are born, I will go over the list and narrow down the best choices. It's not about if you can afford to pay a big price or if you are well known in this sport or breed. The right dog in the right hands can make you well known. I was given the chance at not one but 2 redbone pups who both made once in a lifetime dogs 22 years ago when I was hunting walkers and it changed my life...and those dogs have made an impact on the breed which can be seen still today. I don't care if you hunt redbones, walkers, or any other breed. I care about your ability to start and finish a pup and your desire and ability to give that pup a chance to compete in competition and earn titles and a reputation in the competition world. A winning redbone is good for all other redbones. This will be an expensive litter to produce, register and pay up in s.s. and performance programs....the cost of that and the time and hard work I have put in to get to this point is my contribution....what you do with a pup should you get one will be your contribution and I hope and trust that your efforts will equal or exceed mine and the other people on my team. These are bred to be competition dogs...NOT PLEASURE DOGS. There are plenty of pleasure dog bred pups on this forum if thats what you are looking for. I want these dogs to go to competition hunters who have as much desire to compete and represent this breed as these pups will have to tree coons and do it better than most dogs they hunt against. Make no mistake....even the best bred pups with natural ability cannot and will not make it if they are not given the chance they deserve, the correction all dogs need as they learn and mature, and the proper care a treatment along the way. These pups are not guaranteed to do anything but eat, chew things up and make women and children say "Awe puppy!"
But if you put the time and attention into them, it is my belief that many of them could turn out to be very special competition dogs. I dropped B.J. off at Nevergone this morning and she should be bred over the next few days. I will keep adding to my list until those pups are weaned so if your interested and think you would be a good match....then say so and I will put you on the list to be considered when the time comes. When B.j. finishes to gr.nt.ch. these pups have the chance to also finish and have 4 generations of big winning gr.nt.ch. reproducers behind then. That is a first for this breed, and is a step in a better direction for those who are building their programs around reproducers who are also big winners. I also have another cross currently made between Gr.Nt.Ch. Ky Moonlight Breanna x Gr.Nt.Ch. Rocky Top Jet. This cross is also special to me and many others as it also is stacked top to bottom with big winning titled dogs who are also proven reproducers. At the present time my program is concentrating the blood of several key players in the redbone breed through line breeding.....but when the time is right...we will make outcrosses to introduce new blood to hopefully strengthen some of the more desirable traits we like as competition hunters. Very good thread and alot can be learned from the information being posted here....Shane

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by Beast on 02-19-2013 10:24 PM:

I know that JJ. Jr was bred to Billy The Kid famales over the years wihtout great success. Not saying that they may not have been a few do alright, but not a big percentage. Just curious why other than looking good on paper do you think it will be different this time.

__________________
The Beast

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-19-2013 10:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Beast
I know that JJ. Jr was bred to Billy The Kid famales over the years wihtout great success. Not saying that they may not have been a few do alright, but not a big percentage. Just curious why other than looking good on paper do you think it will be different this time.

Why?
Because there are no weak links for several generations in this cross. Billy was sold to Roy when he was 4 and Roy wanted a stud dog.....so he bred Billy to everything that came knocking. The first cross I made on Billy produced Gr.Nt.Ch. Wapsi River Cookie....who won redbone days...but more importantly....reproduced Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Kate.
Blood does not mean a thing unless it is crossed in the right combinations so as to minimize undesirable traits and maximize the desired traits. I do not know what the mothers of those Billy females you mentioned were like or how they were bred....but I would say that they were not reproducers and probably detracted from the equation.... not added anything useful. Billy was not a dominant stud on all other lines....in fact he seems to have crossed best on only 2 or 3 specific lines. It was probably not known at the time...but I doubt it would have mattered anyway. People wanted to breed and Roy wanted Billy to breed females...and so he did. My program is very selective and I have hunted with many of the dogs behind this cross and me and the guys I am working with feel this cross has a high probability of producing winners who carry enough concentrated outlaw blood that successful outcrosses can be made with them to other concentrated lines. No cross is a sure thing...but none of my dogs are JUST paper tigers. Without their ability to win and display the traits we want to concentrate in future hounds....they would never be bred.
You might hear others on here saying don't breed for papers.....well we are not. The great pedigree full of winners is a byproduct of how good the dogs from these crosses really are. They are good solid dogs that can win....and if given the chance....they prove it over and over again. I have yet to see anyone on here advising people not to breed for papers who have ever drawn me or my dogs in a hunt or ever come for a pleasure hunt. Some people just don't know until they have seen with their own eyes. The trouble is....once you denounce something before seeing it....then when you do...it is not much fun for them to admit they were wrong later. I have a plan....my plan has not changed. I know there are skeptics who do not think it will work....and thats fine. Is it infact working? I will let the public decide that....as long as I feel like I am moving ahead at an acceptable pace of progress....I will stick to that plan and look for ways to improve it. Not many on here seem to understand me very well....and that has caused alot of people to write me off or dislike me. The fact is...I am trying as hard as I can to contribute something to this breed that I hope someday will make all of us proud to say we hunt redbones....and confident enough in our breed to take our dogs to new hieghts in competition.
I can't agree with everyone and understand that many will never agree with me.....but one thing we should all agree on is that better redbones bring more attention to our breed and that is good for all of us going forward.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-19-2013 11:21 PM:

One thing to remember in all this talk of breeding...ask yourself why are certain breeders making the crosses that they are. Why are they selling pups to the highest bidder...or in my case why are they giving pups to who they consider to be the best match for the pup.
I spend alot of money on my dogs, hunting, training and competing and when I raise a litter...and on all things involved in making that happen. I have yet to charge anyone a single dime to breed to any of my dogs or to purchase any pups I have produced. Everyone has their own reasons for doing what they are in this breed. I hope people see that money is not my reason....I have some goals that require better redbones....so I am trying to produce what I need to reach those goals. It won't happen overnight.... but I hope it does in fact happen some day.
I will let the public think about the differences in breeders these days and decide if my intentions are honorable in regards to this breed. Making special crosses (especially with frozen semen) and raising pups can be expensive and time consuming....but I would be doing it for myself to get the pup I want anyway....so I don't feel the need to make it any harder on someone who wants to give one of my pups the chance they deserve. I make my living from a job that I work hard at and I have enough left over to spend some of that to help my breed and the people who support it. I do not want to take anything away from this breed....I want to add to it and make it better. You, the people who support this breed can decide if I am doing a good job of it. I may never sell a pup if I can afford to keep doing this and it helps people who could not otherwise afford....but deserve to have a high quality pup from a cross I decide to make. These are tough times for most coon hunters and their families....we need to do all we can to keep as many people hunting redbones as possible until things get better for everyone. Better days are ahead....I can feel it coming. Everyone who has a plan and is working hard to promote this breed either by breeding, training, or competing is an important part of keeping this sport healthy....so keep up the great work....shane

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