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-- mixed up junk (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928522134)

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Originally posted by yadkinriver
BTW A person that doesn't breed dogs and telling people how they need to breed is like a man thats never been in the water giving swimming lessons.

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Eric DePue
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Yadkinriver

You really think that it takes being a dog breeder to see the results of other breeders? Your analogy is hogwash at best, I never trained a coonhound, but I know what a real coondog is. I have hunted with some very good cross breed hounds. I am not restricted to a certain line of dogs, as a breeder would be. I am not trying to tell anyone how to breed, that choice us theirs to make. What I am saying is the xbreed program is a good thing, it allows the crossbreds to be registered and hunt in competition. If a cross bred hound can beat your purebred hounds, you just may not be the breeder you thought you were. A breed should get better over time, has yours? Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Eric DePue

Thanks for your comment, you are exactly right in what I am saying. We can not expect these "Breeders" to agree with breeding best to best if it means cross breeding. "Breeders" have their own agenda and that is to promote their dogs and sell pups, it's self serving. They look the other way or deny the facts of the outcrosses that were made behind the barn to achieve the same thing. The xbreed program just made it "legal" in UKC'S EYES.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Not disrespecting anyone but I will say these things...first off I will say we owe it to the dogs to breed as best we can and hopefully there will be less culls...

Someone will say...man I bred some cross breeds and I got the best dog ever...and that dog was the best I ever owned...but let’s look at the big picture...if you follow that particular dog he might be the best ever you owned and will be sold on that one data point...looking a little deeper and you will see he probably will not breed consistently but he might be the best you ever owned and now you will say it is the best way to breed...now when looking at a well bred dog it might be that overall he is the better dog...what we need to take into consideration is that the well bred dog is suffering from tired blood...at some point fixing tired blood is done with another dog that looks and acts similarly but is from a different strain and this fixes the tired blood which is another way of saying hybrid vigor...so what I have seen happening is smaller testicles, smaller dogs and smaller litters...we can get stupid and breed something totally different and then wonder what’s happened...or you can breed a top stud that compliments your dogs and now all should be better...maybe...you will know if the puppies act and look right otherwise get rid of them all...find a different stud and if the pups look right so then we select the best pups...key word is best “pups” because you don’t want to put all your hopes on one pup...better chance with more than one...select the best pups possible and breed the best back to your bloodline and guess what...we added fresh blood without drastically changing the line of dogs...now we are set to continue with the breeding program...

The worst thing we can do once we have decent dogs is to bring in new blood and cross over a few times and now the bloodline we guarded so much is really not ours anymore...I reckon it is ok if it’s better than what we originally had...

So folks will tell you line breeding and inbreeding is bad...it’s only bad if we don’t use good sound logic...if we are starting out turn the bloodline over faster than normal to eliminate the junk so our dogs can breed true...the more generations with awesome dogs the better...we are purifying the bloodline...once this happens slow it down so we don’t get into a corner so soon with the hybrid vigor issues (tired blood)...otherwise we will be shopping for another stud sooner than later...

Linebreeding and inbreeding is only as good as our dogs and our selection process...I say do all we can in exposing your pups to people and coon hides etc...use hunger to our advantage...it creates want to in the pups...I feed 4 week old pups raw wild pork with hide and ears and take it away before they get sick with it...I want them to want it...kind of like that kid that only gets a taste of ice cream now and then...they just want more...our breeding program is only as good as the pups you pick so pick pups that are born to hunt, find, bay, wind an locate...pick for natural ability...test and observe...natural ability begets more natural ability...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Re: Ghost14

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
A xbreed won the UKC World fair and square, beat all competition, only to be stripped of the title due to his handlers mistake. Make no mistake Sambo was the best dog that year and proved it.

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Reuben I don’t know about the dogs you breed but in the coonhound breed you had about 5 stud dogs that had 5000 pups apiece ! Well when they built the all grand pedigree they doubled and trippled somtimes more to get it using those studs. Some of them through dominate faults so it magnified it including health issues to boot ! So about the only way to get away from it because nearly every pedigree has them in it multiple times. Is to out cross somtimes completely out of the breed. I out cross somtimes but it is to top caliber top reproducers not the flavor of the month.


Tar

Rueben

What you are saying has a lot of merit, just remember that not everyone who breeds dogs will put that kind of effort into their breeding program. We have to many breeders that are just in it for the money. Raising 2 0r 3 litters and selling pups for 500 each becomes their cash cow. How many breeders do you think follow what you suggest in your post? Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Jen Cummings

As always, I loved your post. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Donnie

We all know the story, tell me who beat him in the World Hunt. Should he have been there, No, but he was and he won every cast. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Reuben I don’t know about the dogs you breed but in the coonhound breed you had about 5 stud dogs that had 5000 pups apiece ! Well when they built the all grand pedigree they doubled and trippled somtimes more to get it using those studs. Some of them through dominate faults so it magnified it including health issues to boot ! So about the only way to get away from it because nearly every pedigree has them in it multiple times. Is to out cross somtimes completely out of the breed. I out cross somtimes but it is to top caliber top reproducers not the flavor of the month.


Tar

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Donald Bergeron

I am going to borrow a quote from Rocky Tanner of Georgia, he hunts some good English hounds. "If A puppy can pull a train, hitch him up". Now that's the way I feel, if it works that's what's important. Give me a mule to ride in rough country, leave the saddlebred for the show ring. Lol. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Reuben I don’t know about the dogs you breed but in the coonhound breed you had about 5 stud dogs that had 5000 pups apiece ! Well when they built the all grand pedigree they doubled and trippled somtimes more to get it using those studs. Some of them through dominate faults so it magnified it including health issues to boot ! So about the only way to get away from it because nearly every pedigree has them in it multiple times. Is to out cross somtimes completely out of the breed. I out cross somtimes but it is to top caliber top reproducers not the flavor of the month.


Tar

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Originally posted by Reuben
No effort whatsoever...it is a fun task when constantly observing and testing pups...

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Re: Donald Bergeron

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
I am going to borrow a quote from Rocky Tanner of Georgia, he hunts some good English hounds. "If A puppy can pull a train, hitch him up". Now that's the way I feel, if it works that's what's important. Give me a mule to ride in rough country, leave the saddlebred for the show ring. Lol. Dave

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Donald Bergeron

In my limited experience I will say that a line of dogs is supposed to get better because I have seen and done it...

The absolute best dog I ever bred in my backyard and trained was a dog I named Yeller... I consider him to be the best I ever hunted and I have hunted some good ones who were mostly related to Yeller...but as weird as it sounds I only bred him once to my dogs but they were all related to him if not all it was most of them...I just knew there was no way he could breed true...a once in a lifetime dog does not reproduce himself because he is too far away from normal...so these traits must be recessives and I don’t think the normal genetic makeup is not there to reproduce itself...to make a dominant recessive there has to be both sets of the same from each parent if I understand it correctly...but those weren’t my only reasons...he was also a crossbred dog...cowdog/hogdog from the sires side and coondog/beardog from the dams side...I crossed that cowdog because the owner said he was a smart dog and I wanted to lock in the size and tighter mouth...

I do not think I will have another like him in my lifetime but the biggest difference between great dogs and once in a lifetime dogs is brain power...the once in a lifetime dogs almost have magical powers like knowing they will outstrike the other dog because they just know it...and finding game for them is just as easy...

I just wonder how many pups were not identified or maybe just ruined and/or they were never found out...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Donald

I definitely enjoy your posts, I bet you have fun hunting and that's what it is all about. Performance counts the most to me, I am not blind to a breed, all I care about is how good the dog can perform. I don't get paid to hunt, I don't have a business agenda connected to my hunting, it's purely a hobby for me. I have not forgotten the roots from which our hounds came from would not be ashamed to hunt a purebred foxhound if it was a good enough coondog. I have hunted every breed of hound and cur dog we have, seen some good ones in most of the breeds and some good crossbreds as well. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

That about sums it up for me as well Dave. I’ve seen good, bad, and ugly in just about all of them. I don’t have to like the breed or style of the dog, but I can dang sure recognize the ones that park under a coon! And those are what I call coon dogs.

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Mountain bred hogs require Mountain
bred dogs.

Re: "Purebred"

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Lol. Just what is purebred? How many actually know what it is and how we define purebred? Yes I know the definition and meaning, but let's just talk for a while. We have several breeds of hounds that were developed from different stocks of dogs, some of these crosses worked and some did not. We made these crosses to better the line or at least to get more of something we wanted in our dogs. We can still better our dogs and get something we want or desire by making crosses outside if the breed.Why is it that we seem shocked or offended to discover that ole blue may have a shot of bird dog in his background if that helped make him a better coondog. I suggest to each of you that you research the history of all the hound breeds and see how they have got to where they are now. Plotts were brought from Germany and don't have the influx of other breeds that the Walkers, Redbones, English and Blueticks have. You may revisit your thoughts on cross breeding. Dave

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John Haun

John

Yes, I have a couple of Xbred crosses Registered Saddlebred X Registered Rocky Mountain , made excellent cross for what I wanted to achieve, style of the saddlebred, temperament of the Rocky mountain. I am not into horses or dogs for money ( cost us a small fortune ), we don't sell our horses or dogs, although I sometimes give a coondog to someone that needs one. My decisions are not money motivated. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
and Curs been and being put into english !!

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I have a 10 year old male yard dog. Half pit bull/ half dachshund. He trees squirrels everyday and is chop mouth on tree. Naturally gamey dog with no training. Still catches a few on the ground sneaking up on them under the bird feeder. Will run a rabbit all day and is open on track. Very smart dog but a little ill. Heck maybe I should breed him to my walker female. 😂

Barnscreek

How good is your walker female? You don't want to mess up a proven bloodline. Lol. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Say what you want about Sambo he can hold his own against any dog on the planet.

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Mike Fleming

Okay I will, lol. Sambo is a COONDOG. I would feed him anytime. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses