UKC Forums - Lets talk some breeding

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Posted by Sawblade on 02-22-2013 11:55 AM:

too late

Looking at the Kate stuff, I wish now she would have been bred to Rusty Red back in the day. especially looking at how he was bred.

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Posted by Nate Ratcliff on 02-22-2013 01:42 PM:

What do you think about this
.......................gr nt yellow river red
...........ntch yellow river doc
.......................yellow river daisy
.............ntch clearfork valley's red rusty
.......................grnt yellow river red
.......... ...keeners addional hill autumn
........:..............keeners sis
Ntch clearfork valley's rusty nail
........................porters buck
................gtnt cedarfork valley woodpecker
.........................bahns jewel
.............ntch nates lol red girl
......................gtnt yellow river red
.................cb happy go roxy
.......................Guernsey valley gypsy
Pups
.......................gtnt yellow river red
...................ntch yellow river doc
........................yellow river daisy
................ntch clearfork valleys red rusty
.:.....................grnt yellow river red
...........:.........keeners add hill autumn
........................kenners sis
Ntch clearfork valleys rusty bell
................ ..ntch yellow river doc
......................yellow river red diesel
............... ..........yellow river red rose
..... ..Yellow river red candy
............ ............ntch yellow river doc
................. .....yellow river fiddle 2
.............. ..........grnt sawblade fiddle
Want to know what I should get from this cross the good the bad and ugly .Don't know what to expect?

__________________
**HOME OF U.K.C. NITECH 'PR' CLEARFORK VALLEYS RUSTY NAIL 8th place Pup Derby winner Thur 2010 National Redbone Days, 8th place reg Friday 2010 National Redbone Days, 3rd place Friday 2011 BBCHA Spring Bluetick Hunt, 3rd place reg Sat 2011 TWBFA Treeing Walker Hunt, 1st place reg 925+ Mt Verion OH, 2nd place Nite CH win 2012 BBCHA Spring Bluetick Hunt win towards Grand **

**HOME OF U.K.C. NITECH 'PR' CLEARFORK VALLEYS RUSTY BELL 6th place Pup Derby winner Thurs 2011 National Redbone Days, 4th place reg. Saturday 2011 National Redbone Days, 1st place reg. June 8 2012 Nova OH**

**HOME OF U.K.C. 'PR' CLEARFORK VALLEYS TUFF AS NAILS**(TUFF) 3rd place Cardington Ohio

**HOME OF U.K.C. NITE.CH.'PR' CLEARFORK VALLEYS RED RUSTY (Deceased) 4th place Thurs 2007 National Redbone Days, 8th place National Redbone Days 2008, 2nd place Nitech High Scoring Male 2010 Thursday National Redbone Days, 1st place Nitech High Scoring Male Sat 2010 National Redbone Days**

**HOME OF U.K.C. NITE CH. 'PR' NATES LITTLE RED GIRL**(Deceased)

CLEARFORK VALLEY KENNELS

Nate Ratcliff, 419-685-1437
Jim Hicks, 419-565-9031

Posted by mmarshall on 02-22-2013 02:50 PM:

Impressive Nate a lot of old yellow river red in there and in the bracket theory spots I know mrg has said to me nail is bred just the way a stud should be in the way the ped is and the bottom is about the same should be a good cross should be some independent suckers

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-22-2013 03:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Zepp
That is interesting on "Sally".

......................................Hoffmiester's Rusty Red
.....................Bunch's Flatwoods Hawk
.......................................Gorham's long Tall Sally
She was one of the nicest red dogs I've ever seen.

Who was Gorham's Sally out of?

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-22-2013 03:51 PM:

Re: Re: best out of a cross

quote:
Originally posted by mrg
SAWBLADE

~~~~WITHOUT PROPER SELECTION~~~~~ EVERTHING ELSE BECOMES VOID AND USELESS. I REPEAT, VOID AND USELESS.

without selection you are simply building an attractive pedigree.

I think that this bears repeating....

Posted by Larry D Walker on 02-22-2013 03:55 PM:

Rebel's Momma

4 generation ol ann

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Posted by Larry D Walker on 02-22-2013 03:57 PM:

5th generation Ol Ann

LOTS OF AMOS AND BETSY

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-22-2013 04:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
I have a question for the guys hunting Rabble dogs....
What are the main differences in the crosses that produced the following dogs?
Rocky
Deuce and Red
Haze
Moose
What are the differences in mouth, how fast and how much they open? Do they all have good or similar locates and tree styles. We have been looking at the Rabble line as one possible out cross for some of our females in the future and I would like to know more about their traits...good...and bad. Thanks

Shane, I have hunted with Haze, Moose and Deuce. They all have big bawl mouths on track, a great locate and chop on tree. They all get struck quick and open good on track without being "mouthy". They all have big locates. In my opinion Moose is the loudest, with Deuce being close behind and Haze being third. Haze has a real pretty deep bawl and chop but it doesn't "carry" as good as Moose and Deuce's. Haze has the best "nose" (in my opinion). Moose and Deuce might get treed just a little quicker but Haze might be just a little more accurate. Now I have not hunted with the three of them together so some of this is just going on my impressions. Moose and Deuce tree up on the tree but Haze will back off in company. I have been told that Rocky and GD Red are very loud and very similar to the rest of them but I have not had the pleasure of hunting with them. If I were you, I would look closely at the bottom side of their pedigrees and compare them to the female that you were planning on breeding. On another note, "I think" that Ranger would be another great outcross on one of your females since he also has that BTK blood.

Posted by Pastor Mike on 02-22-2013 04:09 PM:

What are Haze's numbers

Hi Mike, I was just curious about Haze's numbers when it comes to linebreeding. thanks. Red Ace, Chief and Go Man Sam are pretty consistent. Just wondering how it lines up.

............................................................GrNiteCh Krafts Ramblin Daniel
..................................................NiteCh Dixie Dan
............................................................Martins Red Lady
........................................NiteCh Go Man Sam
............................................................Ch Lakeview Autumn Red
..................................................Richardsons Red Bell
............................................................Goldentone Lady
..............................GrNiteCh Ch T-Top Rocky
............................................................NiteCh GrCh Copelands Shortstop
..................................................Schlessers Red Buck
............................................................Copelands Red Sue
........................................Roeslers Rappin Kate
............................................................NiteCh Ch Clouses Tall Timber Talker
..................................................Tall Timber Ginger
............................................................McDuffies Sadie
.....................GrNiteCh T-Top Tree Talkin Red Rat
............................................................GrNiteCh Krafts Ramblin Daniel
..................................................NiteCh Dixie Dan
............................................................Martins Red Lady
........................................NiteCh Go Man Sam
............................................................Ch Lakeview Autumn Red
..................................................Richardsons Red Bell
...........................................................Goldentone Lady
..............................T-Top Red Roxy
............................................................Ch Elders Red Buck
..................................................Snake Creek Banker
............................................................Dowds Red Jill
........................................Treeing Red Wing
...........................................................NiteCh Ch Timber Blazing Rowdy
..................................................Haynes Fly
...........................................................Kimballs Lady Belle
..........GrNiteCh GrCh T-Top Rabble Rouser
............................................................NiteCh Dixie Dan
..................................................NiteCh Go Man Sam
............................................................Richardsons Red Bell
........................................GrNiteCh Hoffmeisters Rusty Red
............................................................Turpins KS Thunder
..................................................Mahogany Sweet Lulu
............................................................Burkes Red Cricket
..............................GrNiteCh Hoffmeisters Red Bomber
............................................................NiteCh Fuges Bone Chopper
..................................................NiteCh Smiths Red Rowdy
............................................................Loopers Red Tuffie
........................................NiteCh Hoffmeisters Little Sis
............................................................NiteCh Hennings Red Chief
..................................................GrNiteCh Hoffmeisters Red Brandy
.............................................................GrCh Hayes Ramblin Red Kate
....................GrNiteCh GrCh T-Top Rock-N-Red Raven
............................................................NiteCh Dixie Dan
..................................................NiteCh Go Man Sam
............................................................Richardsons Red Bell
........................................GrNiteCh Hoffmeisters Rusty Red
............................................................Turpins KS Thunder
..................................................Mahogany Sweet Lulu
............................................................Burkes Red Cricket
..............................GrNiteCh Morriettas Tree Ringin Bell
............................................................GrNiteCh Hayes Ramblin Red Ace
..................................................NiteCh Henning Red Chief
............................................................Hayes Ramblin Debbie
........................................GrNiteCh Hoffmeister's Red Brandy
............................................................NiteCh Ch Hayes Ramblin Red Buck
..................................................GrCh Hayes Ramblin Red Kate
............................................................Pecks Red Babe
Sire: GrNiteCh GrCh Soggy Bottom T-Top Haze
............................................................GrNiteCh Krafts Ramblin Daniel
..................................................NiteCh Dixie Dan
............................................................Martins Red Lady
........................................NiteCh Go Man Sam
............................................................Ch Lakeview Autumn Red
..................................................Richardsons Red Bell
............................................................Goldentone Lady
..............................GrNiteCh Hoffmeisters Rusty Red
............................................................NiteCh Hennings Red Chief
..................................................Turpins KS Thunder
............................................................GrCh Hayes Ramblin Red Kate
......................................Mahogany Sweet Lulu
............................................................NiteCh Hennings Red Chief
..................................................Burkes Red Cricket
............................................................Hennings Magic Lady
....................GrNiteCh Hoffmeisters Red Bomber
............................................................GrNiteCh Hayes Ramblin Red Ace
..................................................NiteCh Fuges Bone Chopper
............................................................GrCh Hayes Ramblin Red Kate
........................................NiteCh Smiths Red Rowdy
............................................................NiteCh GrCh Huntin Hollow Major
..................................................Loopers Red Tuffie
............................................................Loftis Fearless Fly
..............................NiteCh Hoffmeisters Little Sis
............................................................GrNiteCh Hayes Ramblin Red Ace
..................................................NiteCh Hennings Red Chief
............................................................Hayes Ramblin Debbie
........................................GrNiteCh Hoffmeisters Red Brandy
............................................................NiteCh Ch Hayes Ramblin Buck
..................................................GrCh Hayes Ramblin Red Kate
............................................................Pecks Red Babe
..........NiteCh Ch Soggy Bottom Bombers Red Wire (Pigeon)
............................................................GrNiteCh Krafts Ramblin Daniel
..................................................NiteCh Dixie Dan
............................................................Martins Red Lady
........................................NiteCh Go Man Sam
............................................................Ch Lakeview Autumn Red
..................................................Richardsons Red Bell
............................................................Goldentone Lady
.............................GrNiteCh Hoffmeisters Rusty Red
............................................................NiteCh Hennings Red Chief
..................................................Turpins KS Thunder
............................................................GrCh Hayes Ramblin Red Kate
........................................Mahogany Sweet Lulu
............................................................NiteCh Hennings Red Chief
..................................................Burkes Red Cricket
............................................................Hennings Magic Lady
....................GrNiteCh Morriettas Tree Ringin Bell
............................................................NiteCh Bakers Rip
..................................................GrNiteCh Hayes Ramblin Red Ace
...........................................................Maddoxs Daisy Mae
........................................NiteCh Henning Red Chief
............................................................NiteCh Millers Valley Wood Pecker
..................................................Hayes Ramblin Debbie
...........................................................Tall Timber Kate
.............................GrNiteCh Hoffmeister's Red Brandy
............................................................NiteCh Hayes Pokey Dan
...................................................NiteCh Ch Hayes Ramblin Red Buck
............................................................Clouses Silvertone Kate
........................................GrCh Hayes Ramblin Red Kate
............................................................NiteCh Claunchs Thunder Bill
..................................................Pecks Red Babe
............................................................Ch Swing Red Patsy Ann [/B]

__________________
Soggy Bottom Redbones

GRNTCH GRCH 'PR' Soggy Bottom The Frog Dawg (current reproducers list)
NTCH CH Soggy Bottom The Bull Dawg
Soggy Bottom T-Top Miss Dottie
RIP
GRNTCH GRCH Soggy Bottom T-Top Haze HTX (Former#1 Reproducer)
CH Soggy Bottom T-Top Stella
GRNTCH GRCH Soggy Bottom T-Top Shadow
NTCH CH Soggy Bottom Bomber's Red Wire (Pigeon- former #1 Reproducer)
NTCH GRCH Red Cedar T-Top Lexus
CH Soggy Bottom T-Top Locket

Mike Laster
540-392-2441
pastorlaster@aol.com

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-22-2013 04:46 PM:

Rusty Red was bred to a linebred Chief/Ace female to produce Bomber. Bomber was then bred back to his almost full sister who was also out of Rusty and a linebred Ace/Chief female to produce Raven and Pigeon. Raven was bred back to a linebred Go Man Sam male (Rusty's sire) to produce Rabble who was then bred to his aunt, Pigeon, to produce Haze. That Tom Solberg really knew what he was doing. Haze must be one of the most prepotent sires out there.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-22-2013 05:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Shane, I have hunted with Haze, Moose and Deuce. They all have big bawl mouths on track, a great locate and chop on tree. They all get struck quick and open good on track without being "mouthy". They all have big locates. In my opinion Moose is the loudest, with Deuce being close behind and Haze being third. Haze has a real pretty deep bawl and chop but it doesn't "carry" as good as Moose and Deuce's. Haze has the best "nose" (in my opinion). Moose and Deuce might get treed just a little quicker but Haze might be just a little more accurate. Now I have not hunted with the three of them together so some of this is just going on my impressions. Moose and Deuce tree up on the tree but Haze will back off in company. I have been told that Rocky and GD Red are very loud and very similar to the rest of them but I have not had the pleasure of hunting with them. If I were you, I would look closely at the bottom side of their pedigrees and compare them to the female that you were planning on breeding. On another note, "I think" that Ranger would be another great outcross on one of your females since he also has that BTK blood.

Thanks Richard,
Thats the kind of info I was looking for. I have hunted with Rocky twice now and seen him run track and make several trees so I have a pretty good idea of some of his traits. I also hunted with Rage for one drop and got to see him run a track and tree. I hope I get the chance to hunt with some of the others and that all of their owners are able to get semen collected and stored on them for use in the future. I consider the T-Top line a proven competition line and those type of lines are the one I am interested in.
I have to say....the walkers may be leading the pack in terms of overall popularity and their dominance in competition....but I don't think there is any other breed out there that is working smarter and harder than the redbone breed to gain ground on them!
I think it is important that we are starting to understand better, how we produced some of the dominant prepotent reproducing redbones of the past. Until we understand how we made them.....we cannot accurately or predictably repeat those types of successes in the future. When we look at some of the truly great reproducers in our breeds history we are starting to see the same patterns repeating over and over again. This may be the "secret" piece of the puzzle. I think we have the right blood, but we have not always been getting the dogs lined up in the best order to concentrate it for it to produce supercrosses on a consistent and repeatable basis..... Shane

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-22-2013 05:55 PM:

Re: Re: best out of a cross

quote:
Originally posted by mrg
SAWBLADE

~~~~WITHOUT PROPER SELECTION~~~~~ EVERTHING ELSE BECOMES VOID AND USELESS. I REPEAT, VOID AND USELESS.

without selection you are simply building an attractive pedigree.

This is why I like to use proven winners in my program. Not just titled dogs but big winners who have the traits that not only allow them to win over other dogs....but traits that I like to see in a dog. The right type of mouth and loud volume, drive, nice tree style and the type of build and look I like in a dog.
I don't breed for titles on paper only....if the dog doesn't fit the title it carries and have other traits I consider vital....it won't be considered for breeding.

Posted by jkhutch on 02-22-2013 06:08 PM:

T-Top line

Shane,

Come down and hunt sometime. I'm only about 2.5 hours from ya. I believe Boone carries a lot of those same traits as his daddy, Haze.

Thanks.

__________________
Jared Hutcheson
Indiana
Redbones:
GRNTCH PKC Ch PR Hutch's Big Walnut Boone HTX DNA-V(Haze X Reba)-
2 Time UKC World Top 100
UKC World Top 20 (13th)
UKC Purina Redbone of the year
PKC Redbone CH
UKC Top Producers List
UKC Winter Classic High Scoring Redbone
Co owned with Richard Lambert

GrNtCh PKC Ch One Chance Fancy- (Boone X Toadie)
2018 Autumn Oaks Grand 16
2018 Grand National Redbone
2018 Redbones Days RQE 1st Place

Walkers-
NTCh PKC CH Jeb�s Finley River Peanut- Co owned with Bishop Stallcop
Claremont PKC Legacy hunt Final 4
PKC Breeders Showcase Final 4

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-22-2013 06:16 PM:

Re: T-Top line

quote:
Originally posted by jkhutch
Shane, I believe Boone carries a lot of those same traits as his daddy, Haze.

Shane, I have hunted with Boone and Haze. I also think that Boone carries a lot of those same traits. Maybe you should think also about breeding one of those females to Boone. You would be adding the T-Top line while doubling/tripling up on Kate/Pepper. Oh my goodness, how many top reproducers/supercrosses and big hunt winners would be in that pedigree? There are just way too many choices/decisions to make now.

Posted by mmarshall on 02-22-2013 08:09 PM:

Mike could you put the inbreeding calculator web address up for us again thanks

Posted by Pastor Mike on 02-22-2013 08:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mrg
PASTOR MIKE

Coefficient for HAZE

Inbreeding: 0.212890625 (21.2890625%)
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient): 43.650793650794%
The computation has been done for 6 generations

Inbreeding contribution by acenstor
BOMBER 0.0625 (6.25%)
RINGIN BELL 0.0625 (6.25%)
RUSTY RED 0.03125 (3.125%)
RED BRANDY 0.015625 (1.5625%)
SAM 0.03125 (3.125%)
RED CHIEF 0.0029296875 (0.29296875%)
RED KATE 0.00244140625 (0.244140625%)
RED BUCK 0.0029296875 (0.29296875%)
FLY 0.0009765625 (0.09765625%)
RED ACE 0.00048828125 (0.048828125%)

Percent of blood by ancestor
RABBLE 50
RED WIRE 50
RAT 25
RED RAVEN 25
BOMBER 37.5
RINGIN BELL 37.5
ROCKY 12.5
RED ROXY 12.5
RUSTY RED 37.5
LITTLE SIS 18.75
RED BRANDY 28.125
SAM 31.25
RAPPIN KATE 6.25
RED WING 6.25
SWEET LULU 18.75
RED ROWDY 9.375
RED CHIEF 20.3125
RED KATE 18.75
DAN 15.625
RED BELL 14.0625
RED BUCK 9.375
TIMBER GINGER 3.125
BANKER 3.125
FLY 4.6875
THUNDER 9.375
RED CRICKET 6.25
BONE CHOPPER 4.6875
RED TUFFIE 4.6875
RED ACE 7.8125
RAMBLIN DEBBIE 6.25
RED BABE 6.25
DANIEL 6.25
RED LADY 6.25
AUTUMN RED 6.25
GOLDEN TONE LADY 6.25
SHORTSTOP 1.5625
RED SUE 1.5625
TALL TIMBER TALKER 1.5625
MCDUFFIES SATIE 1.5625
ELDERS RED BUCK 1.5625
RED JILL 1.5625
BLAZING ROWDY 1.5625
LADY BELL 1.5625
CRICKETT 3.125
RED BELLE 1.5625
MAGIC LADY 3.125
HOLLOW MAJOR 1.5625
BAKERS RIP 1.5625
DAISY MAE 1.5625
WOOD PECKER 1.5625
TIMBER KATE 1.5625
POKEY DAN 1.5625
SILVERTONE KATE 1.5625
THUNDER BILL 1.5625
PATSY ANN 1.5625

HAZE come in at 21.28%, he is almost at the father daughter cross. notice this, many people are reluctant to make close crosses but don't realize that they are eventually producing the same result by continued linebreeding. his avk is at 43.65% and that is the limit, most would want to keep it above 50%. this is a 6 generation and most all dogs will increase in numbers if you go farther back in the ped like this. though bomber, bell, go man sam, and rusty red gave the greatest contribution you can see that 10 dogs out of all this 6 generation played the greatest part in his production because they were the ones that was linebred upon through out this pedigree. haze should be a candidate for not only continued linebreeding, or partial outcrosses, but especially for dogs with open pedigrees, for he will doninate in such crosses. of course as i stated earlier
[ IF THE SELECTION PROCESS MEETS YOUR CRITERIA ] you have to appreciate all the time and effort that went into this ped through the years. but.... let me throw this out for some of us that are getting old ,,,LOL,,,,,, you can obtain 25% coefficient in just one cross,,,, so there is hope for us older guys. ,,,LOL,,,,,

thanks a bunch mike, I don't understand all of this stuff....but it looks pretty good to me.

Posted by wbond on 02-22-2013 08:29 PM:

Line breeding be doing it for years but with walker dogs had the same line now if you count when me and my Dad 1st started with reg. dogs back in 69 had several great crosses the best I would say was one dog in particuler breed her 4 times and she never had a big litters she had 17 pups total 8 of of them I think made nite or grand and a few while never hunted in competition made some awesome bear dogs

any way we had a much higher chance of getting a coon dog than we had back in the days of grade dogs you breed a coon dog to a coon dog some would track and not tree some would tree and would not track you never knew what you was going to get or what color had some with a copper nose one time but you were lucky if 1 in a litter made a complete coon dog

in 10 generations my best dogs came from double 1 st cousins crosses but any way I sure have enjoyed reading all of this at one time or anther I have tried a lot of crosses brother to sister mother and son, son and mother, back to uncles's and aunts but one of the things that I was lucky we had my Dad , A.D. Lyndell, David ,Dale, Coy and Glenie hunting all of these crosses and breeding back and forth so one thing I know for sure it nice to have a team working together

__________________
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. ~~ Thomas Jefferson

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"

Thomas Jefferson

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
Thomas Jefferson

Posted by Nate Ratcliff on 02-22-2013 10:06 PM:

MRG
Rusty is my target dog.Thanks for figuring that out for me.As far as more line breeding how much closer could you go on witch dog.We have a full brother to bell and a grand son to rusty.How could I add these dogs without getting to close to a pup off of bell?Again Mrg thanks for all your help....

Posted by RON WOLTER on 02-22-2013 10:12 PM:

BOY =O =BOY
NOW I REALY THINK THIS POST
IS GETING SOMEWHARE
THIS IS WHAT IT TAKES
((( TEAM WORK )))
MIKE G. YOU ARE A BIG HELP
===== T H A N K S =====

--Redcoat---

__________________
Ron Wolter
Redcoat

Posted by Sawblade on 02-22-2013 10:43 PM:

Nate

Take a female off the Nail/ Bell cross and breed it to the brother of Bell. then save me nice little girl from that cross I want one. ...How have your crosses reproduced so far Nate. Are any of them Super????

Posted by Don Barnett Sr on 02-23-2013 04:56 AM:

Ped

When Ginger finishes out this is the plan for her.

********GRNTCH T-TOP TREE TALKIN RED RAT
******GRNTCH GRCH T-TOP RABBLE ROUSER
*****GRNTCH GRCH T-TOP ROCK-N- RED RAVEN
****GRNTCH FICKENS DEEP WOODS ROCKY
*****GRNTCH GRCH BIG G FARMS RED ICE
******GRNTCH CH THOMAS MIDNIGHT MUSIC
*****GRNTCH GRCH BIG FARMS RED PEPPER
***
********GRNTCH GRCH T-TOP RABBLE ROUSER
******GRNTCH BEAR'S CROSSCOUNTRY RED DEUCE
********GRNTCH CH STERKIS'S MACHINE GUN ANNIE
****GINGER
********GRNTCH GRCH T-TOP RABBLE ROUSER
******NTCH STERKISS MIDNIGHT MUSIC MAKER
********GRNTCH CH THOMAS MIDNIGHT MUSIC
Ginger and all her littermates have all the goods to make top cooners and comp hounds.
Please let me know what you think about this cross, good or bad.
Also feel free to add to this ped if you know more about its fourth generation.
We hope to make this cross next year.
--------------------------IBA------------------
T-TOP RABBLE ROUSER 0.125 (12.5%)
THOMAS MIDNIGHT MUSIC 0.0625 (6.25%)
________________PBA___________
FICKENS DEEPWOODS ROCKY 50
GINGER_________________ 50
T-TOP RABBLE ROUSER_____ 50
THOMAS MIDNIGHT MUSIC__ 37.5
BEAR'S CROSSCOUNTRY RED DEUCE 25
STERKIS'S MIDNIGHT MUSICMAKER 25
T-TOP TREE TALKIN RED RAT______ 12.5
T-TOP ROCK-N-RED RAVEN _______ 12.5
BIG G FAMRS RED ICE ___________ 12.5
BIG G FARMS RED PEPER _________ 12.5
STERKIS'S MACHINE GUN ANNIE____ 12.5
I stell need input on this cross. Let me know what you think.
I can always use some help. Thanks.

Posted by Have One Reds on 02-23-2013 01:59 PM:

You guys can run your own numbers here.

http://www.czerwonytrop.com/inb/index.php?full=ok%20=en

__________________
Dan Delp

Posted by Churchy3044 on 02-23-2013 04:44 PM:

I ran our future pups pedigree through the calculator and I got an AVK of 83.33% with rusty red inbreeding of (18.75). It said that you want an AVK of 85% or greater. Some of it I dont quite understand. Will this be a good cross by the inbreeding calc. Standards?

Posted by steve guffey on 02-24-2013 01:38 AM:

Future Cross [maybe]

Sire Moonlight Amos {Monlight Big D X Moonlight Mystery}Dam Nitech Big Country Little Missy {GRNITECH Grch Hollow Creek Axle X Hollow Creek Dixie } Any info on the dams side would be appreciated.[ Mystery is out of Big Time BO X Deanna.] Just wondering how this cross would work. Let me know the good and the bad.

Posted by Trinket clark on 02-24-2013 03:31 PM:

Would like any input you guys could give me, Thank You.

Trying to figure all this out...This is a cross I want to make, if these were Red Dogs How am I doing, and in what direction should I go with these dogs...

Inbreeding 21.875%
AVK - 76.667

Inbreeding contribution by ancestor:
Brookshiers Uncle Lee - 18.75%
Brookshiers Backwater Kate -3.125%

Percent Blood by ancestor:
Uncle Lee - 68.75%
Jade - 50%
Speed - 31.25%
Kate -37.5%
Driver -25%
Babe -25%

~Future Cross~

Sire - Uncle Lee

(Pups)
....................Cooks Speed
...............Uncle Lee
....................Backwater Kate
..........Driver
....................Bark Bustin Bush
...............Sally
....................Backwater Kate
Dam - Jade
....................Wessel's Wild Casey
...............Billy
....................Misty (gr.daughter to Hillbilly Mac)
..........Babe
....................Uncle Lee
...............Jesse (litter mate to Driver)
....................Sally

__________________
Jason Clark
Home of over 25 yrs of Line bred Brookshier hounds!
Home of Line bred Durbins Rambler Hounds and heavy line bred Rolling Hills hounds.

~Where a man's word still means something & a handshake is all We need!!!

~Grntch Chestnut Grove Ben Semen(Full Brother to Uplinger's Joe & Son of Logan's Wild Clover x Sandy Creek Daisy) Not For Sale - Frank Hummel/Jason Clark

~Grntch Hardwood Whiner/Rolling Hills Hunter Semen(Son of Durbin's Rambler x Rolling Hills Jane) Not For Sale

~Dual ch.Brookshiers Finley River Driver(2007 Walker days 1st place & high scoring walker male sat) (Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~3 Wins to Grand, Nitch Clark's Mr.Wilson HTX(Driver x Cane River Cry Babe) Qualified 2014, 2016 UKC World Hunt
~Brookshier's Finley River Salty (Grntch. Brookshier's Finley River Sting x Cane River Trudy,Trudy is a Littermate to Wilson and Sassy)
~Brookshier's Finley River Sniper (Driver x Kraviks Babe) Uncle niece cross
~Brookshier's Finley River Momba (Driver X Kraviks Babe) Uncle Niece Cross
~Nitch Cane River Sassy (Driver x Cane River Cry Babe)Qualified 2012 UKC World Hunt
~Clark's Finley River Spot(Finley River Zig x Ramblin Jane) Winer and Ramblin Jane are Brother&Sister
~Clark's Rolling Hills Skinner (Grntch Hardwood Winer x Clark's Finley River Spot)
~Nitch Brookshier's Crosscountry Gert. (Uncle Lee x Crosscountry music) Daughter of Lone Pine Dewey
~Nitch Brookshier's Finley River Viper(Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~Brookshier's Fullblown Rage (Uncle Lee x Finley River Molly ) Daughter of F.R. Lonnie x Fulkerson's F.R. Suzy
~Clark's Little River (Grntch Shoemakers Gator x Grntch Shoemakers Lou
~Brookshier's Otter Creek Dan (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Little Lady (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Penns. Scooby (Denny Burn's Willie x Backwater Kate ,Uncle Lee's mother)

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