UKC Forums - Thyroid problems running wild.

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-- Thyroid problems running wild. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928517689)

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 04-25-2019 01:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar

I gave you all I got !

Tar

Thanks.
Let’s say you are rite and it started with Clint and Bozo (that’s what you said) now that was a long time ago, over 30 years and you did nothing to fix it shame on you.

Posted by yadkintar on 04-25-2019 01:40 AM:

Well I am only raising one more litter of pups if I make it through that one no more. It’s kinda like going rabbit hunting with jimmy he has 8 good beagles he loads them , he feeds them , he cleans their pens , I just go and listen to them and go home I am getting used to that lol.

Thyroid beagles hmmmmm run a rabbit backwards how would you know !!

Tar

Posted by yadkintar on 04-25-2019 01:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Thanks.
Let’s say you are rite and it started with Clint and Bozo (that’s what you said) now that was a long time ago, over 30 years and you did nothing to fix it shame on you.

I wasn’t a breeder I was the pooper scooper and the gopher !

Why didn’t you fix it ?

Tar

Posted by Tim Green on 04-25-2019 01:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Don’t have or will I own a dog that needs thyroid pills.
If you guys know for a fact this is going on and you know who they are Do The Rite Thing and let us All know?

If your dog, let’s say 2 years from now he needs thyroid pill for what ever reason, I pray that never happens but if it does are you gonna buy every pup back and take them out of the breeding chain? If not you could be one of the breeders you are taking about in 15/20 years.

Is this the question you want me to answer or another one? I will try and answer this one the best I can. If I sold a person a puppy knowing one or both parents were taking daily routine medicine like thyroid pills....I would give them a health guarantee. If they brought the pup back for any reasons connected to that issue...I would give them their money back for the dog, no questions asked. I want people to be satisfied with their hound from me. I currently do not have any dogs in my kennel taking medication. If they were on something that I thought would affect an offspring, I would not breed them. Simple as that. Just like today, I was gonna put my dogs on the flea pill and my vet advised against the bred females taking it right now, so they won’t get it.

If this started generations ago, I can’t change the past...only impact the future.

If it is another question you want answered, let me know and I’ll try to answer it....but I refuse to spread rumors that I heard. I base my opinion of people through my personal dealings with them.

Tim

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Posted by Dave Richards on 04-25-2019 01:58 AM:

Tar and Tim Osborne

Don't think either of you guys had any control over someone else's breeding program and neither of you are to blame or responsible to fix anything. Thyroid problems are just that, manmade or heritary, but should not undisclosed to an innocent buyer. Don't breed known carriers and don't sell known thyroid dogs to unsuspecting buyers. Genetic issues can be eliminated if one does not breed those carrying these genetic problems. Some genetic problems can only be passed from mother to son or father to daughter, so it's important to look at several generations in order to eliminate these traits or genetic faults. Dave

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Posted by Dave Richards on 04-25-2019 02:10 AM:

Tim Greene

Good policy, unfounded rumors are best left alone. I like your style, base your opinions on your own dealing with someone and not on what someone else has said. Paul Harvey always said now for the rest of the story for a reason, there is usually 2 sides. Lol. Dave

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 04-25-2019 02:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I wasn’t a breeder I was the pooper scooper and the gopher !

Why didn’t you fix it ?

Tar

Was nothing to fix, only dogs around here was Yadkin River, Barret Mtn And a few Packman dogs, now we did have a thing called Adjusting For Tree Position, now I’m here to tell ya you didn’t want to go to the tree till the adjusting was done.

Posted by yadkintar on 04-25-2019 02:39 AM:

I was a NTCH judge one night and a Black and Tan by the name of sun valley butch had a little walker dogs whole head in his mouth the little dogs feet were off the ground and butch was still treeing every breath. I scratched him and his handler got mad. The handler of the little walker dog said never mind judge if you let me get my dogs head out of butches mouth I will withdraw butch is impressive lol.

Tar

Posted by Rip on 04-25-2019 04:01 AM:

Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
All of the dogs I have ever known to be thyroid dependent dogs in my area were Yadkin River stock, bred by Kyle Chase of Kingsport, Tenn. Kyle raised Yadkin River Jeff just so you know who I am talking about, Jeff is prominent in the Rattler line pedigree. I don't remember the pedigree of the Tom dog I owned that was a thyroid dog, but so am sure Kyle would. This information is well known in my area and can be proven by a local vet who treated a lot of Kyle's dogs. Dave

I will give you one more on this one. I know this is true for a fact because I consider Kyle a good friend and one of the few people that I would buy a dog from without seeing it go based on what he told me about it.

He told me himself all of his dogs were thyroid dogs and it was genetic but he had good luck with them treeing coons and he stayed with that line. To my knowledge he never tried to make it a secret and he never overdosed his dogs to gain an advantage. He just happened to have thyroid problems in his dogs.

The man had coondogs that anybody would be proud to lead.

Someone on here said nobody was doing it for an advantage. Yes, yes it would give them a performance advantage. More energy, more hunt. That's what thyroid medication does. It does that to people too thats why some people abuse it to lose weight and "get things done". They don't do it as much any more because of the known side effects of heart damage and bug eyes but it has been abused in humans as well and even now Nike is paying millions to use it in the highest dose possible and limit side effects to help their athletes. That's why the WDA wanted it outlawed but the ruling was that it has no benefit for people that need it, it just makes them normal and it wouldn't be fair to outlaw a medication that is needed just to make some people normal.

When I was in medical school another student got kicked out of school for using ADHD medication for an advantage. He did not have ADHD but he would use it to stay up later and study longer and have more energy. He was caught and got what he deserved, but he was using it for his advantage. It had side effects he was willing to endure just to make better grades by studying longer.

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 04-25-2019 04:40 AM:

Re: Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
I will give you one more on this one. I know this is true for a fact because I consider Kyle a good friend and one of the few people that I would buy a dog from without seeing it go based on what he told me about it.

He told me himself all of his dogs were thyroid dogs and it was genetic but he had good luck with them treeing coons and he stayed with that line. To my knowledge he never tried to make it a secret and he never overdosed his dogs to gain an advantage. He just happened to have thyroid problems in his dogs.

The man had coondogs that anybody would be proud to lead.

Tar you spoke about Kyle many times on the phone but never a word about this Humm, how much Bozo or Clint was in the yadkin River line? Was it a sissy pill or thyroid pill that made them coon dogs that anyone would be proud to own!

Posted by Dave Richards on 04-25-2019 05:21 AM:

Doc

I agree, Kyle is a good guy and NO he never hid the fact on his line of dogs being thyroid dependent, it was very common knowledge. Dave

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-25-2019 06:07 AM:

I saw on one of these posts where all of the big winners at a recent world hunt were thyroid dogs. If thyroid dogs are winning all of the money, I don't see why everyone doesn't want a thyroid dog. It is no wonder there are so many of them. You would think that breeders would be boasting that their dogs were thyroid dogs.

Posted by yadkintar on 04-25-2019 07:47 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Tar you spoke about Kyle many times on the phone but never a word about this Humm, how much Bozo or Clint was in the yadkin River line? Was it a sissy pill or thyroid pill that made them coon dogs that anyone would be proud to own!

Tim you get off your pity party and look at a set of papers you would realize lipper was yadkinriver on the bottom. I have just had it since rattler stacked and stacked it but done it where I always skipped several generations. And have lipper and Harry several times also. I also have had sorry dogs out of it once and a while never tested them except with lead just like you or anybody else should. Where I noticed it before we knew what it was is you would have a nice young dog and at two years old it went to crap and nothing you could do would fix it. I noticed it with lipper and Harry more than most. Most of the dogs I raised are here local none have it. If you are not the solution your part of the problem. I told you I don’t have it come test it I don’t even have to take them to the vet they are healthy. You wanted names me and Dave wanted to be tactfull but you insisted and insisted because you thought we was talking about you ...... we weren’t.

Your like the guy at the football game team gets in a huddle and he thinks their talking about him.

Come test my dogs !!!!!!

Tar

Posted by yadkintar on 04-25-2019 07:54 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Tar you spoke about Kyle many times on the phone but never a word about this Humm, how much Bozo or Clint was in the yadkin River line? Was it a sissy pill or thyroid pill that made them coon dogs that anyone would be proud to own!

Also he never told me that because that is not what we were talking about. Dave said Jeff was not a thyroid dog. I know nothing about what line he had before that. I do know what Jeff was out of but did not know who owned them it was before my time.

Tim world campion bozz was out of rattle shaker he was out of rattler. Bozz was my $8,000 + thyroid lesson that’s why I hate that people are breeding and not disclosing their very destructive secret.

Tar

Posted by johnny reb on 04-25-2019 01:53 PM:

Dave Richards I think part of Kyles problem with the thyroid isssue were related to how he bred those dogs. He linebred or inbred too tight so that intensified the trait.

Posted by chaz2012 on 04-25-2019 02:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I saw on one of these posts where all of the big winners at a recent world hunt were thyroid dogs. If thyroid dogs are winning all of the money, I don't see why everyone doesn't want a thyroid dog. It is no wonder there are so many of them. You would think that breeders would be boasting that their dogs were thyroid dogs.

Richard are your red dogs thyroid dogs?

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Posted by shadinc on 04-25-2019 04:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I saw on one of these posts where all of the big winners at a recent world hunt were thyroid dogs. If thyroid dogs are winning all of the money, I don't see why everyone doesn't want a thyroid dog. It is no wonder there are so many of them. You would think that breeders would be boasting that their dogs were thyroid dogs.

If all of the big money winners are "sick" dogs, doesn't that say something about juicing?

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-25-2019 05:34 PM:

No, I guess that is why they aren't big winners. I guess that I need to find a Redbone thyroid dog and start breeding it into mine.

Posted by shadinc on 04-25-2019 06:17 PM:

How about you start your present redbone on thyroid meds? Ain't that how it's done?

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-25-2019 06:23 PM:

That is what Tarbaby says but what most are talking about on here are dogs with a genetic predisposition to thyroid disease. A dog with a "damaged" thyroid gland does not pass this on to it's offspring. (No matter how many times Tarbaby says they do)
And I have not seen/read anything that convinces me that giving a dog that has a normal thyroid level Synthroid will help them that much unless they are lazy or lacking in energy. I have a hard enough time keeping up with mine as it is.

Posted by yadkintar on 04-25-2019 06:25 PM:

I don’t want mine going no farther no faster. If I wanted to hunt a mile over there I would have turned loose over there.

They got anything makes them close and alone ?

Depends on what damages it Richard the doctor told you on here turn up your hearing aids.

Tarbaby

Posted by DL NH on 04-25-2019 06:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar

Thyroid beagles hmmmmm run a rabbit backwards how would you know !!

Tar

Dogs get stuck in the hole?🙃

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 04-25-2019 07:55 PM:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3219766/

Read this thyroid study. Although it pertains to humans I would have to believe it would somewhat also pertain to dogs .
It is pretty scientific in speech but still can be comprehended by a layman.
Pay particular attention to individual ranges ,hereditary influences, genes, auto immune disease ,and finally the summary of the findings in this study.

A few excerpts:

autoimmune thyroid disease commonly runs in families, and the search for genes which increase susceptibility has identified several good candidates, particularly those involved in immune regulation and thyroid function. However, these genes alone account for only a small percentage of the current prevalence of these disorders.

It has been recognized for some time that circulating TSH, free thyroxine (free T4) and free tri-iodothyronine (free T3) concentrations in euthyroid individuals have a much greater inter-individual than intra-individual variation. As a result, although the population reference ranges for these parameters are wide, each individual appears to have their own set point within this. At what point an individual started within the range is very important when one is trying to determine if an alteration in thyroid function has resulted in a clinical problem.Findings suggest that individual thyroid function set points are mainly genetically derived, however, the genes responsible have until recently not been known.

Improved technology in genetic investigations have already provided us with a wealth of information on the genetic basis for ‘normal’ thyroid function, autoimmune thyroid disease and the influence of thyroid genes on clinical phenotypes. Early optimistic expectations that all genes responsible would be rapidly discovered have had to be reined in, and researchers across many fields are searching for the reasons this has not happened.

Here is another on the Hyper type.This whole site has a lot of good info instead of all the mis-imformation being tossed.

https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/h...hyperthyroidism

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 04-25-2019 10:08 PM:

While I got it up here is another study on Environmental influences on the Thyroid.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...PMC2935336/#B32
A few excerpts:

The common model of the onset of autoimmune thyroid disease involves an underlying genetic predisposition and a trigger(s) that initiate the cascade of events and sustain the process, culminating in thyroid hypofunction or hyperfunction.
The environmental factors most closely associated with susceptibility to autoimmune thyroid disease include radiation, iodine intake (OOPS THERE IT IS AGAIN ), and environmental toxicants

Excess iodine, however, can also have adverse effects depending on underlying thyroid function, as well as the extent and duration of iodine excess .The acute response to increased iodine intake with a normal underlying thyroid is reduced thyroid hormone production and release, the Wolff–Chaikoff effect. In most individuals with normal thyroids, there is an escape from this effect after 5–7 days. Those with underlying thyroid dysfunction, however, may be unable to escape from this effect and have persistent hypothyroidism. (This may explain why some of you say ..well gee I am using the same feed and I am having no problems)Patients with multinodular goiter and associated areas of autonomous, TSH-independent, thyroid hormone production can have excess thyroid hormone production in response to iodine, the Jod–Basedow effect.
In response to iodine supplementation in areas of iodine deficiency, there is an increase in thyroid autoantibodies and in some cases autoimmune thyroid disease.
Excess iodine, however, is associated with adverse effects, especially in those with underlying multinodular goiter or with thyroid autoantibodies.

Soy protein and soybean isoflavones have been associated with reduced T4 absorption, interference with thyroid hormone action and, in a few studies, increased thyroid autoimmune disease.(CHECK YOUR DOG FOOD INGREDIENTS)

Posted by Dave Richards on 04-26-2019 08:36 AM:

Pat Bizich

Good post, I expect most of us take this thyroid problem serious and appreciate this kind of information. However, those messing with thyroid meds just to juice their dogs don't care about facts or their dogs health. They are only interested in getting an advantage any way they can. Dave

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