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-- Thyroid problems running wild. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928517689)

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This post was intended to have a few on here that I know have researched the Thyroid Problem. Bring good information on the issue back up and we could reread it and try to get an understanding of the issue. Along with some in the industry that can make a change. Perhaps align themselves with a vet or organization that has the ability to research this and take it serious.

Pat, I appreciate the information you shared. There is also a couple others that I know have good info but I guess they have gotten burned out. Trying to explain there is more to it than meets the eye.

Rip I appreciate your medical input.

Now for the negative on the subject. There have been 149 replies with close to 6,000 views. What has been the most discussed issue. Juicing the dogs and cheating. That is all you guys want to talk about. Here is the truth on that subject. Most of you have never seen it done and the ones that know all about it and brag on it. Should be embarrassed they know so much about it. When the crooks in the sport have all the answers. It's a sad day. I have coon hunted for 52 years and I have never seen someone give their dogs anything to increase performance other than perhaps Red Cell if they are on a road trip and dog gets run down. I have had one conversation once about a drug called Winstrol or something like that back in the 90's. But using it I was told also increased their aggression level.

Back to the thyroid thing. If you ever truly seen a clinical example of a thyroid dog and the side affects on the dog. It will sadden your heart. Hair loss on sides and tail. Eye and ear issues. Overweight. It starts with the Thyroid but ruins the body in many dogs. Just like diabetes does in Humans. It ravages the body. That is why we need good information on the subject. And not get hung up on side issues like drugging a dog which is a total man made issue and those that want to ruin their dog. Go ahead. But I want to find out what is in the environment, dog food or breeding style that is destroying our dogs.

My answers, I feel is Line Breeding, Dog Food and Damage form E-Collars. Which one is the biggest contributor. I won't speculate. But if you ever see your prize hound truly ravaged by a Thyroid issue. It will stick with you and you would not think of giving the dog something for performance that could destroy it because it damaged the thyroid.
We have always look towards Purina as the leader in Balanced dog food. They have kennels of dogs they have studied for years. Yet I have not seen and information from them on the subject? Even though I feel the dog food might be the biggest contributor. Why hasn't Purina discovered an issue. I am sure if they had any claims that their dog food had no influence on Thyroid while some other did. It would be the biggest advertising story in a Lifetime.

Again Pat. Thanks for the info. Now you guys can go back to clouding the issue with your nonsense of doping dogs.
Anyone doping their dog deserves the thyroid dog they get but remember. Doping won't affect anyone else dog. Dog food, breeding and environment will. That is the issues that need to be talked about.

__________________
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"Boss Lights"

Bruce I love you man really ! But did you or did you not breed blaze and is he or is he not a thyroid dog ? I seen pups and grand pups for sale out of him this week look to be from 12 to 15 months old. If people are breeding it stands to reason it sure ain’t helping matters any.


Both his brouther and sister are thyroid dogs.



Tar

.

Tar the facts are this on Blaze. Blaze was a special hound from the performance standpoint. We and I say We. James Wright and myself offered him at stud. Because there are many out there that like and want a tight bred Wipeout Hound. Blaze was that hound. Those that choose to breed to him had a history with the wipeout breed and they knew exactly what the genetics of they breed brought to the table. Both good and risky.
We never pushed blaze and bred only a handful of females to guys that understood this.
If someone that wanted to be in the Stud dog business had Blaze he would have been advertised and pushed. He has over 30,000 dollars to his credit won and has won for several people all over the US. We got him to tree coon with and win a few hunts. I don't think you ever saw blaze advertised by us in any cooner, bloodlines magazine. Redgy did give us a good deal and we had a couple ads in the CHKC magazine. I told more people Blaze perhaps was not the dog they needed to breed to than I did they should breed to him. So I sleep very good at night with no thoughts of doing anyone wrong.
I think there was one guy from your area that bred a female to him and she was a thyroid dog, I came to learn. Think those pups have issues also. You can single out Blaze but if your were forming a line of those that push dogs for breeding and money making purposes. Blaze would be at the end of the line. Blaze was offered to those knowledgable of issues and still wanted his pedigree in their pups.

I personally have had one dog in 52 years here at the house that I have had to give medication to. That is my MONGO dog I have right now. He has a completely different pedigree than Blaze and doesn't have any dog with the prefix WIPEOUT in his pedigree. Yes back many generations you can find common dogs. That can be done in most Walkers. Mongo looks awful and is sick. But I tell you one thing. I can take him hunting and there is no performance issue. He has the heart of a coon dog and he hunts hard, trees every breath and trees real live coon every week for us.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

A dog that has a good thyroid can not be given medication for thyroid to help it be more of an athlete.. I had a English dog with eurlichia and his thyroid was at 1.2 so I tried meds to raise thyroid level. His level did not go up instead it went down to .7. I got ahold of a thyroid veterinarian ms Dodds out of California and had a long discussion with her about this and was told a dog with good thyroid who is put on meds will actually lower the level and destroy the thyroid gland. Ms. Dodds also says it is hereditary. The only way we as hounds men can get a grip on the problem is to stop breeding to known blood lines, but we all know that won't happen.

https://drjeandoddspethealthresourc...m/dodds-thyroid

Get the facts from someone who knows instead of listening to those on here that no nothing, but gossip like a couple old hens

__________________
Todd Byers
Camanche, Iowa
309-912-8942 ( best to text )

PKC CH Byers Boogar Hollow D
( Mojo On Tap X Midnight Fly )

JMO

I have Thyroid dogs that were NOT from breeding.
Both were from TIC diseases.
1 when I bought had Eurlichia.
other got Rocky Mnt. fever at 3 yrs old.

The 'Thyro' pills saved both their lives.1.0 2x a day keeps them in 'normal' window of 2.5-3.0 +/-

Victor Red bag surely didn't help matters either.
Male is now sterile,female never had full or sometimes any heat cycle.Also had many false pregnancy after years of eating it.

Way to high Sodium,Salt,Iodine will damage Thyroid over time and I 100% think it did here too.Many others on here have had same problem with V red bag.Once off had normal heat cycles,even pups.
again JMO
Bash on or make excuses

__________________
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{Great White Shark x Brush Creek Patch}

quote:

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Originally posted by MR.RATMAN
A dog that has a good thyroid can not be given medication for thyroid to help it be more of an athlete.. I had a English dog with eurlichia and his thyroid was at 1.2 so I tried meds to raise thyroid level. His level did not go up instead it went down to .7. I got ahold of a thyroid veterinarian ms Dodds out of California and had a long discussion with her about this and was told a dog with good thyroid who is put on meds will actually lower the level and destroy the thyroid gland. Ms. Dodds also says it is hereditary. The only way we as hounds men can get a grip on the problem is to stop breeding to known blood lines, but we all know that won't happen.

https://drjeandoddspethealthresourc...m/dodds-thyroid

Get the facts from someone who knows instead of listening to those on here that no nothing, but gossip like a couple old hens

---

__________________
Let's go huntin

I'm not confused I witnessed it my English hound that died. Had 1.2 level gave him .5 2x a day for 3 weeks retested and started on .1 2 x a day and after 3 more weeks retested and he was down to .7 level. That's when I got ahold of Ms Dodds for answers and was on the phone for 45 minutes and got all sorts of ligature on thyroid for dogs...

My English dog passed under a tree at the age of 3. I will never own or breed a thyroid hound .

I also agree with what you are saying Thanks RIp

__________________
Todd Byers
Camanche, Iowa
309-912-8942 ( best to text )

PKC CH Byers Boogar Hollow D
( Mojo On Tap X Midnight Fly )

quote:

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Originally posted by MR.RATMAN
I'm not confused I witnessed it my English hound that died. Had 1.2 level gave him .5 2x a day for 3 weeks retested and started on .1 2 x a day and after 3 more weeks retested and he was down to .7 level. That's when I got ahold of Ms Dodds for answers and was on the phone for 45 minutes and got all sorts of ligature on thyroid for dogs...

My English dog passed under a tree at the age of 3. I will never own or breed a thyroid hound .

I also agree with what you are saying Thanks RIp

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__________________
Let's go huntin

Pride and integrity

Back in the late 1980's a very well known breeder of bluetick coon hounds said this to me: "Pride is a most expensive inheritance yet lest it be overcome by good judgement it becomes the cheapest of things known to man."

As I've followed this thread I find myself asking where is the pride in breeding dogs with known inheritable health issues that can be genetically passed on? Where is the pride in selling someone a pup or mature hound and not disclosing known health issues? Where is the pride in putting a title on a dog while knowingly "juicing " it with the intention of giving it unfair advantage over the competition?

"The love of money is a root of all kinds of evils." 1 Timothy 6:10. Words proven to be true over several hundred years of human history.

__________________
Dan

Treating a dog with no thyroid issues will cause the thyroid to actually shut down due to the medication to try keeping levels normal was my understanding. Maybe that is what I was misinformed or confused RIP

I tried to boost my English hound up to help with the eurlichia but like I explained it dropped and after 2 weeks off the medication it went back to normal range.

__________________
Todd Byers
Camanche, Iowa
309-912-8942 ( best to text )

PKC CH Byers Boogar Hollow D
( Mojo On Tap X Midnight Fly )

quote:

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Originally posted by MR.RATMAN
Treating a dog with no thyroid issues will cause the thyroid to actually shut down due to the medication to try keeping levels normal was my understanding. Maybe that is what I was misinformed or confused RIP

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__________________
Let's go huntin

Rip

Doc, great post and good explanation, this should clarify the confusion on just how juicing a dog can be done. How anyone with a conscious could do this is beyond my thinking. My dogs are my buddies, I just could never do something knowing that I intentionally caused them harm. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Rip

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Doc, great post and good explanation, this should clarify the confusion on just how juicing a dog can be done. How anyone with a conscious could do this is beyond my thinking. My dogs are my buddies, I just could never do something knowing that I intentionally caused them harm. Dave

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Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
I think many are missing boat here. There are many Thyroid Coon Hounds out there that have never been doped in any fashion. They are not even walkers so their genetics isnt even close to what the experts on here think is a line of dogs with thyroid issues.

How many of you have ever seen the typical clinical example of a thyroid dog. It is not a pretty picture. Yes there is such a thing. I am saying there is a lot more going on with our hounds of all breeds. Someday the truth will come out. Probably a dog food issue. But to get someone to do long term testing and expose it. Will be a long time coming.

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KLER KRY a very big number of thyroid dogs are known. I would think about anyone that has been fooling with hounds for any amount of time would kno,the specific bloodlines thatntend to be more prone to the disease.

KLER KRY a very big number of thyroid dogs are known. I would think about anyone that has been fooling with hounds for any amount of time would kno,the specific bloodlines thatntend to be more prone to the disease.

Thomasg it's not that dalmatian breeders are so far ahead of hounds when it comes to health issues. It all boils down to how the breed associations work in akc. Most states have breed associations clubs which fall under the national breed club. Through these come health studies and breed standards that are adopted by the members under the akc umbrella. One issue that the dalmatian club worked on was the deafness issue. Some of the results actually helped the cochlear implant procedure that humans use. Rush Limbaugh has one. I don't forsee ukc or $kc ever going to this type of process. If i was buying a dog i would want a throid panel and heartworm test plain and simple.

quote:

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Originally posted by johnny reb
KLER KRY a very big number of thyroid dogs are known. I would think about anyone that has been fooling with hounds for any amount of time would kno,the specific bloodlines thatntend to be more prone to the disease.

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thyroid dogs

Surely there are some dogs from these bloodlines that are normal and do not reproduce low level dogs. If so which ones are they?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Tar

Tar,
Your example was the same 1 I brought up a year or 2 ago. People don't want to think about all the dogs that ""Blew up"" over the years. I've talked to several vets and several old timers that thought I had probably the most realistic answer to the "thyroid epidemic" we're seeing in dogs.

On a different note........ Guys are wondering why it seems more prevalent in the walkers than the other breeds. Because on average there's more walkers that get hunted 5-7 days a week than the other breeds. Not saying that there aren't guys pushing in the off color breeds but not as a whole the same way. So when we see something gets way off or abnormal with what we're pushing we take it to the vet.

Bruce,
I understand what you were trying to do from the original post. I commend you for that. On another note, thyroid dogs can't take any type of cold temps, they go into hypothermia. And as stated before your dog could show zero signs of being a thyroid dog from 0-5 but at 6 or older it becomes a thyroid dog for 1 reason or another.

__________________
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Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

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Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

So after years of discussion on this issue I'd say it comes down to a couple things we need to really focus on.

1. Genetic Hypothyroidism

2. Dietary Induced Hypothyroidism - ie. Iodine deficiency/excess, toxins

3. Euthyroid Sick Syndrome - ie. Tick Born Illness and others


We are seeing many issues with the new BEG diets on the market causing Dilated Cardiomyopathy in dogs. Not sure exactly what it is yet with these diets. It includes fad type diets like Boutique style diets that includes RAW diets, Grain free diets, and Exotic diets with rare ingredients. At first it was thought to be related to Taurine amino acid deficiency, but now that is being debunked by Nutritionists and Cardiologists. Many of the cases they are seeing don't have Taurine deficiencies in their diets.

What this brings up for me is that maybe we do need to look more at the diets as a cause of hormonal disruption in our hounds including hypothyroidism. I wasn't a big fan of jumping on the diet wagon at first, but this definitely has me wondering now. I've never been a fan of Grain Free diets. Especially when we've seen the results of changing the diet, of a female who isn't showing signs of heat, to a different commercial brand of dog food with grain (corn) and she starts to cycle again. Are some diets tainted with hormones or some other toxin that is disrupting their hormonal cycles, or is there a deficiency or excess in a certain ingredient of some foods leading to hormonal imbalances? Why did we see the surge of hypothyroidism in these hounds around the time when Grain Free Diets became the fad? When they pulled the natural sources of iodine out of dog foods by removing grains, they started supplementing with artificial / synthetic iodine sources. Are these sources the cause of our problems here? I'm just thinking folks.

Lots to think about!

Doc

__________________
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Current:

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Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch. Ambraw River Rock
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch. Hersh's Huntin Red Kate)
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Nt.Ch. Tree Bustin Annabelle
1986 American Redbone Days All Red Hunt Winner

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Mother of Gr.Nt.Ch. Babb's Hazel

Nt. Ch. Timber Shock
(Gr.Nt.Ch.Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Outlaw Jessie)

Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Squaw Mountain Goldie
(Direct Daughter of Gr.Nt.Ch.Smokey Mountain Brandy)
1990 Autumn Oaks Best of Show Winner
1988 Indiana State Champion

So after years of discussion on this issue I'd say it comes down to a couple things we need to really focus on.

1. Genetic Hypothyroidism

2. Dietary Induced Hypothyroidism - ie. Iodine deficiency/excess, toxins

3. Euthyroid Sick Syndrome - ie. Tick Born Illness and others

These are the same conclusions I have made.
I have a difference of opinion though on the surge beginning with the grain free diet push.

I am going to repost something that AAFCO did that gave the go ahead to the increasing of Iodine in our dogs feed.
Pay particular attention that these increases were done without any study of consequences on our dogs health .
They were adopted from the FEDIAF, the equivalent of AAFCO in Europe. AND Europe had problems with Thyroid dogs before the US did.
Pay attention to the amount that the increases were and the year it was done.

One other thing I have railed against and that is FISHMEAL.
It has iodine levels that vary from batch to batch.
IT HAS NEVER, NEVER, NEVER , EVER BEEN APPROVED FOR LONG TERM USE IN COMPANION ANIMALS FEED!!!
Check your feed for added kelp products .

Now a lot of what I am going to post had been copied and pasted to my folders so I no longer can give credit of where I found it.BUMMER I had a bunch of links to medical journels I checked after posting that no longer are valid that backed a lot of what I have posted here.

IODINE
The 2006 NRC RA for iodine in dog foods is 0.88 mg/kg DM. The FEDIAF
Guideline concentrations range from 0.9 to 1.5 mg/kg DM. In considering the basis for
these various recommended concentrations the 2007 CNES felt a recommended
minimum concentration of 1.0 mg/kg to be prudent and adequate to support adult
maintenance as well as growth and reproduction.
The 2007 CNES revised the maximum concentration for iodine based on the
following considerations. Although neither the 2005 Mineral Tolerances for Animals
nor the 2006 Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats established a tolerance or SUL
for iodine in diets for dogs, both publications cite data that indicate a commercial
formulation containing 5.6 mg iodine/kg diet had adverse effects on thyroid
function.

2008 FEDIAF Guidelines indicate a maximum concentration for iodine of 11 mg/kg
The tolerances for iodine in the 2005 Mineral Tolerances of
Animals that have been established for various species range from 5 mg/kg DM in diets
for horses to 400 mg/kg DM in diets for swine. Given that the NRC tolerance for
horses is 10 times less than the general maximum concentration of 50 mg iodine/kg
DM recommended by AAFCO, the 2007 CNES felt the value of 50 mg/kg DM to no
longer be appropriate for setting a maximum concentration for iodine in dog foods.
The 2007 CNES acknowledges that additional studies may allow further refinement of
a maximum amount of iodine in foods for dogs, but until such data are available the
CNES felt it prudent to adopt the FEDIAF position and set 11 mg iodine per kg DM as
the maximum concentration of iodine in dog foods.
-----------------------------------------------
https://www.ourdogsonline.com/viewt...=iodine#p107704
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.democraticunderground.co...dress=243x25841

Excess Iodine implicated in Thyroid disease: RDA's for Iodine in Dogs ...are they too high?

I raise this important topic for 4 reasons:

1) I recently proved that one of my dogs had suffered needlessly for more than 2 years due to a diet induced case of hypothyroidism(documented here at OurDogsOnline.com). This was the second dog (different breeds) of mine in the last 5 years that had been diagnosed with autoimmune thyroid disease.

2) I have noticed that thyroid disease (and associated symptomatic conditions) is one of the most common ailments reported on-line.

3) The National Research Council's RDA with respect to iodine (approx 300 mcg for a 50 lb adult dog) is more than triple the human RDA (approx 100 mcg) for an adult human weighing 3 times as much ... so potentially 9 times greater on the basis of weight alone.

4) Lastly, I have noticed that many commercial dog foods include kelp or seaweed as a key ingredient, often in unspecified quantities. One gram of kelp of the species Laminaria digitata contains approximately 5mg of iodine. The iodine content in 17 different kelp supplements studied by one group of researchers varied from 45 to 57,000 mcg per tablet or capsule!(1) Further many home-made dog food recipes seem to include kelp as a necessary dietary component of well-being ...why else would they call it "healthy powder"?

With the increasing number of both dogs being diagnosed with hypothyroidism, and the hype around the benefits of kelp, I feel it necessary to ask the question -- are we putting too much iodine in their diet?

-----------
Some facts and scientfic studies that suggest yes -- we may be ingesting too much iodine in both our own and in our pets' diet...

In humans, the RDA for iodine is approx 40 to 200 mcg per day (Source 1). Most nutrtional experts use 100 mcg of iodine per day as a target RDA.

One gram of kelp of the species Laminaria digitata contains approximately 5mg (5000 mcg) of iodine (Source 1) -- ie. 50x the upper limit RDA.

In Canada and the US table salt is iodized at a rate of 100 ppm. So 1 gram of salt contains 100 mcg of iodine (approx. the RDA for most adults). One teaspoon of iodized salt contains 400 mcg of iodine.

Iodine is considered to be an important environmental agent known to increase the risk of thyroid autoimmunity. Too much iodine or too little iodine can have very consequential effects on thyroid function. Several studies support a role for iodine in the initiation and promotion of auto-immune thyroid disease.The well known side effects of iodine include iodine induced hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism. It has been shown that the introduction of iodine in a previously iodine deficient population may precipitate the emergence of thyroid autoimmunity. Thus, epidemiological studies have shown that appearance of thyroid autoantibodies has been associated with salt iodination in iodine-deficient regions. In addition, animal studies have confirmed that high iodine intake accelerates autoimmune thyroiditis in autoimmune-prone animal models. See Medical Journal Ref's (2), (3), (4).

The American Thyroid Association recommends that the low-iodine diet (used in the treatment of thyroid cancer patients) include less than 50 mcg of iodine per day. (Source 2) Besides iodized salt, the following food items contain copious amounts of iodine: seafood products, dairy products, egg yolks, baked products, red dye#3, molasses, soy products, some beans (red kidney beans, lima beans, navy beans, pinto beans, and cowpeas), fresh meat, and some rices.


====================================


Other Reading
Kelp is a good source of bioavailable iodine. One gram of kelp of the species Laminaria digitata contains approximately 5mg of iodine.

Health Canada advises against use of SEAVITE products containing iodine
Health Canada is advising consumers not to use SEAVITE Premium Atlantic Kelp Blend and SEAVITE Premium Atlantic Kelp Tablets. These products, when consumed according to the instructions on the label can provide 25 times the recommended daily allowance (RDA) per day of iodine for adults; and could lead to serious adverse health consequences.

5000 mcg of Iodine in Maine Coast Sea Vegetables
Maine Coast Sea Vegetables offers two types of Kelp. Whole leaf kelp (Laminaria longicruris) has approximately 450 mcg. (micrograms or parts per million) iodine per gram. Our milled kelp (Laminaria digitata), sold in bulk and in our Sea Seasonings, has even higher amounts, about 5000 mcg. In comparison, Dulse contains 50 mcg per gram. These amounts are approximations as there is variation depending on season of harvest and the age of plant.



I am currently reviewing a signficant body of literature on the dark side to soybean of which many byproducts are used in pet foods. Soy has been purported to have a role in thyroid-related problems.

This past week a poster (who suffers from hypothyroidism) alerted me to its potential cause/effect relationship. So I did a bit of poking around in the medical journals and sure enough there was some compelling evidence that soy may be implicated in thyroid disfunction and immune disorders.

This general/layperson's article in Mother Jones (2004) encapsulates many of the more recent findings. It is also accompanied by a full set of references.

Wrt to iodine,(and other additives) the biggest problem is that the pet food companies do not disclose how much is alleged to be in the formulas, and even if they did they have an astoundingly bad track record for getting the quantities of food items wrong. Kelp, a huge source of iodine with great variabilty in iodine content, is routinely added to most dog foods now on top of calcium iodate. Check out these dog food comparisons. Most contain both kelp & calcium iodate!

What the hell is going on?? Who's designing this chow?? How many sources of iodine do we need? And who's measuring it?


5. Some additional links on iodine, hypothyroidism & testing

Canine Autoimmune Thyroid Disease And Symptoms
http://siriusdog.com/articles/canin...mune-thyroid...

https://www.endocrine.org/search/#q...0Hypothyroidism

I agree that Kelp is one cause.

I have one dog with hypothyroidism, and buried another with hypothyroidism. They were both fed kibble containing kelp. The dog that is still living was put on a raw diet. Within several months, he had an intolerance to warmth and was panting. A blood draw indicated a lower dose of Soloxine thyroid hormone. He was put on once/day dosing instead of twice/day. The warmth intolerance stopped, as well as the panting.

Can I explain how a thyroid can start working somewhat properly again after changing the diet? No. But it happened. That's all the proof I needed to know that kelp should not be fed. Unfortunately, he was fed that kibble for 6 years, so some of the damage to the thyroid is permanent.

I think once humans intervene in what Nature provides for us and our animals, we're asking for trouble.


That is more or less the experience I have had with my little aussie. Sadly, I also had a previous dog (a springer spaniel) that suffered thru years of hypothroidism (I just didn't know enogh at the time) and finally died suddenly of Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia -- all brought on by the s*** in the commercial feed.


I lose lots of sleep due to the guilt of blindly following my vet's advice about what to feed my dogs. Never again!

__________________________________________________
______________________ LINKS

http://www.jarvm.com/articles/Vol1Iss1/CASTIJVM.htm

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pat Bizich
So after years of discussion on this issue I'd say it comes down to a couple things we need to really focus on.

1. Genetic Hypothyroidism

2. Dietary Induced Hypothyroidism - ie. Iodine deficiency/excess, toxins

3. Euthyroid Sick Syndrome - ie. Tick Born Illness and others

These are the same conclusions I have made.
I have a difference of opinion though on the surge beginning with the grain free diet push.

I am going to repost something that AAFCO did that gave the go ahead to the increasing of Iodine in our dogs feed.
Pay particular attention that these increases were done without any study of consequences on our dogs health .
They were adopted from the FEDIAF, the equivalent of AAFCO in Europe. AND Europe had problems with Thyroid dogs before the US did.
Pay attention to the amount that the increases were and the year it was done.

One other thing I have railed against and that is FISHMEAL.
It has iodine levels that vary from batch to batch.
IT HAS NEVER, NEVER, NEVER , EVER BEEN APPROVED FOR LONG TERM USE IN COMPANION ANIMALS FEED!!!
Check your feed for added kelp products .

Now a lot of what I am going to post had been copied and pasted to my folders so I no longer can give credit of where I found it.BUMMER I had a bunch of links to medical journels I checked after posting that no longer are valid that backed a lot of what I have posted here.

IODINE
The 2006 NRC RA for iodine in dog foods is 0.88 mg/kg DM. The FEDIAF
Guideline concentrations range from 0.9 to 1.5 mg/kg DM. In considering the basis for
these various recommended concentrations the 2007 CNES felt a recommended
minimum concentration of 1.0 mg/kg to be prudent and adequate to support adult
maintenance as well as growth and reproduction.
The 2007 CNES revised the maximum concentration for iodine based on the
following considerations. Although neither the 2005 Mineral Tolerances for Animals
nor the 2006 Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats established a tolerance or SUL
for iodine in diets for dogs, both publications cite data that indicate a commercial
formulation containing 5.6 mg iodine/kg diet had adverse effects on thyroid
function.

2008 FEDIAF Guidelines indicate a maximum concentration for iodine of 11 mg/kg
The tolerances for iodine in the 2005 Mineral Tolerances of
Animals that have been established for various species range from 5 mg/kg DM in diets
for horses to 400 mg/kg DM in diets for swine. Given that the NRC tolerance for
horses is 10 times less than the general maximum concentration of 50 mg iodine/kg
DM recommended by AAFCO, the 2007 CNES felt the value of 50 mg/kg DM to no
longer be appropriate for setting a maximum concentration for iodine in dog foods.
The 2007 CNES acknowledges that additional studies may allow further refinement of
a maximum amount of iodine in foods for dogs, but until such data are available the
CNES felt it prudent to adopt the FEDIAF position and set 11 mg iodine per kg DM as
the maximum concentration of iodine in dog foods.
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https://www.ourdogsonline.com/viewt...=iodine#p107704
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http://www.democraticunderground.co...dress=243x25841

Excess Iodine implicated in Thyroid disease: RDA's for Iodine in Dogs ...are they too high?

I raise this important topic for 4 reasons:

1) I recently proved that one of my dogs had suffered needlessly for more than 2 years due to a diet induced case of hypothyroidism(documented here at OurDogsOnline.com). This was the second dog (different breeds) of mine in the last 5 years that had been diagnosed with autoimmune thyroid disease.

2) I have noticed that thyroid disease (and associated symptomatic conditions) is one of the most common ailments reported on-line.

3) The National Research Council's RDA with respect to iodine (approx 300 mcg for a 50 lb adult dog) is more than triple the human RDA (approx 100 mcg) for an adult human weighing 3 times as much ... so potentially 9 times greater on the basis of weight alone.

4) Lastly, I have noticed that many commercial dog foods include kelp or seaweed as a key ingredient, often in unspecified quantities. One gram of kelp of the species Laminaria digitata contains approximately 5mg of iodine. The iodine content in 17 different kelp supplements studied by one group of researchers varied from 45 to 57,000 mcg per tablet or capsule!(1) Further many home-made dog food recipes seem to include kelp as a necessary dietary component of well-being ...why else would they call it "healthy powder"?

With the increasing number of both dogs being diagnosed with hypothyroidism, and the hype around the benefits of kelp, I feel it necessary to ask the question -- are we putting too much iodine in their diet?

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Some facts and scientfic studies that suggest yes -- we may be ingesting too much iodine in both our own and in our pets' diet...

In humans, the RDA for iodine is approx 40 to 200 mcg per day (Source 1). Most nutrtional experts use 100 mcg of iodine per day as a target RDA.

One gram of kelp of the species Laminaria digitata contains approximately 5mg (5000 mcg) of iodine (Source 1) -- ie. 50x the upper limit RDA.

In Canada and the US table salt is iodized at a rate of 100 ppm. So 1 gram of salt contains 100 mcg of iodine (approx. the RDA for most adults). One teaspoon of iodized salt contains 400 mcg of iodine.

Iodine is considered to be an important environmental agent known to increase the risk of thyroid autoimmunity. Too much iodine or too little iodine can have very consequential effects on thyroid function. Several studies support a role for iodine in the initiation and promotion of auto-immune thyroid disease.The well known side effects of iodine include iodine induced hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism. It has been shown that the introduction of iodine in a previously iodine deficient population may precipitate the emergence of thyroid autoimmunity. Thus, epidemiological studies have shown that appearance of thyroid autoantibodies has been associated with salt iodination in iodine-deficient regions. In addition, animal studies have confirmed that high iodine intake accelerates autoimmune thyroiditis in autoimmune-prone animal models. See Medical Journal Ref's (2), (3), (4).

The American Thyroid Association recommends that the low-iodine diet (used in the treatment of thyroid cancer patients) include less than 50 mcg of iodine per day. (Source 2) Besides iodized salt, the following food items contain copious amounts of iodine: seafood products, dairy products, egg yolks, baked products, red dye#3, molasses, soy products, some beans (red kidney beans, lima beans, navy beans, pinto beans, and cowpeas), fresh meat, and some rices.


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Other Reading
Kelp is a good source of bioavailable iodine. One gram of kelp of the species Laminaria digitata contains approximately 5mg of iodine.

Health Canada advises against use of SEAVITE products containing iodine
Health Canada is advising consumers not to use SEAVITE Premium Atlantic Kelp Blend and SEAVITE Premium Atlantic Kelp Tablets. These products, when consumed according to the instructions on the label can provide 25 times the recommended daily allowance (RDA) per day of iodine for adults; and could lead to serious adverse health consequences.

5000 mcg of Iodine in Maine Coast Sea Vegetables
Maine Coast Sea Vegetables offers two types of Kelp. Whole leaf kelp (Laminaria longicruris) has approximately 450 mcg. (micrograms or parts per million) iodine per gram. Our milled kelp (Laminaria digitata), sold in bulk and in our Sea Seasonings, has even higher amounts, about 5000 mcg. In comparison, Dulse contains 50 mcg per gram. These amounts are approximations as there is variation depending on season of harvest and the age of plant.



I am currently reviewing a signficant body of literature on the dark side to soybean of which many byproducts are used in pet foods. Soy has been purported to have a role in thyroid-related problems.

This past week a poster (who suffers from hypothyroidism) alerted me to its potential cause/effect relationship. So I did a bit of poking around in the medical journals and sure enough there was some compelling evidence that soy may be implicated in thyroid disfunction and immune disorders.

This general/layperson's article in Mother Jones (2004) encapsulates many of the more recent findings. It is also accompanied by a full set of references.

Wrt to iodine,(and other additives) the biggest problem is that the pet food companies do not disclose how much is alleged to be in the formulas, and even if they did they have an astoundingly bad track record for getting the quantities of food items wrong. Kelp, a huge source of iodine with great variabilty in iodine content, is routinely added to most dog foods now on top of calcium iodate. Check out these dog food comparisons. Most contain both kelp & calcium iodate!

What the hell is going on?? Who's designing this chow?? How many sources of iodine do we need? And who's measuring it?


5. Some additional links on iodine, hypothyroidism & testing

Canine Autoimmune Thyroid Disease And Symptoms
http://siriusdog.com/articles/canin...mune-thyroid...

Iodine Induced Hypothyroidism
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/ra...n.2007-0082v...


I agree that Kelp is one cause.

I have one dog with hypothyroidism, and buried another with hypothyroidism. They were both fed kibble containing kelp. The dog that is still living was put on a raw diet. Within several months, he had an intolerance to warmth and was panting. A blood draw indicated a lower dose of Soloxine thyroid hormone. He was put on once/day dosing instead of twice/day. The warmth intolerance stopped, as well as the panting.

Can I explain how a thyroid can start working somewhat properly again after changing the diet? No. But it happened. That's all the proof I needed to know that kelp should not be fed. Unfortunately, he was fed that kibble for 6 years, so some of the damage to the thyroid is permanent.

I think once humans intervene in what Nature provides for us and our animals, we're asking for trouble.


That is more or less the experience I have had with my little aussie. Sadly, I also had a previous dog (a springer spaniel) that suffered thru years of hypothroidism (I just didn't know enogh at the time) and finally died suddenly of Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia -- all brought on by the s*** in the commercial feed.


I lose lots of sleep due to the guilt of blindly following my vet's advice about what to feed my dogs. Never again!

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