UKC Forums - poll: winning traits we should breed for

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Posted by everett on 04-03-2013 07:32 PM:

poll: winning traits we should breed for

Are the following the traits we should breed for to win.

strike tracks that can be teed in 20 minutes or less.

leave fast looking for a coon

drift tracks opening here and there.

be independent if necessary.

ability to lay a coon up.

get treed and stay right or wrong.

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Posted by everett on 04-03-2013 08:55 PM:

opions on style (traits) welcome

I voted yes, would like to here some frm some that voted no...Gerald

Posted by byrd, lance on 04-03-2013 09:11 PM:

Gerald

I am experiencing good independence (not paying attention to other hounds while not passing up coon) as the hounds get older. The other traits are bred in them. I personally like the same type hound you do. Naturally I voted yes.

Posted by Vic Stoll on 04-03-2013 10:56 PM:

I would add: A ONE BARK TREE DOG THAT CAN BE HEARD

Can't have them locating around

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Posted by CGRADR07 on 04-04-2013 12:50 AM:

I like a dog that gets opened quick on track. don't care for it to say much after it opens, just here and there. When it locates I want it there right or wrong.

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Posted by Tom Jones on 04-04-2013 02:09 PM:

UUUUMMMMMMM

those traits are the reason I hunt bluedogs, except the running by tracks to find a easy one...............I am not gonna put buckets up to hunt off of just so my dog can tree a coon.

SERIOUSLY: I thought we had them traits bred in pretty strong and as far as one bark treedogs, if you need a faster locating dog then see the twin springs running bullet II thread, I have owned several of them and no matter if they turned out average or top hound THEY ALL WERE ONE BARK, TREE'EM WHEN THEY LOOK UP type dogs

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Posted by hat creek mac on 04-04-2013 03:31 PM:

Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by everett
Are the following the traits we should breed for to win.

strike tracks that can be teed in 20 minutes or less.

I don't think it is the kind of tracks that the dogs are striking as much as their inability to move a track

if you have one that is looking for where a coon IS and not where he WAS you will spend more time treed and less time booting and bellering

my opinion only

Posted by Tom Jones on 04-04-2013 03:40 PM:

Re: Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
I don't think it is the kind of tracks that the dogs are striking as much as their inability to move a track

if you have one that is looking for where a coon IS and not where he WAS you will spend more time treed and less time booting and bellering

my opinion only

KINDA WHAT I WAS THINKING BUT YOU KNOW HOW THAT GETS A THREAD TWISTED UP LOL

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Posted by everett on 04-04-2013 03:46 PM:

Re: Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
I don't think it is the kind of tracks that the dogs are striking as much as their inability to move a track

if you have one that is looking for where a coon IS and not where he WAS you will spend more time treed and less time booting and bellering

my opinion only

Richie, I agree, that,s why I love a drifting hound, he is looking for the coon and not just trailing sticking his nose in a track where a coon had been 2 hours ago, Good point, Thanks.....Gerald

Posted by hat creek mac on 04-04-2013 03:52 PM:

Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by everett

be independent if necessary.

that part is NECESSARY if they are going to eat feed at my house....not just a little bit independent either....

There was a dog that won all over this country and had his praises sung by the masses at how good this hound was. I mean this sucker was a big time winner at big hunts. I finally got the chance to draw him. You talk about an absolute piece of junk. Got struck quick and backed every dog that made a tree. If a dog loaded up on a tree, that sucker was breaking his neck to get there. I wouldn't have fed this counterfeit sucker one bite of my dog feed, but he had won all over the country.

What fits your mold of a winner might not fit someone elses. A ME TOOing sucker that gets open quick CAN and WILL win if you take him to town enough.

One that REALLY suites me may be too independent for some and in far north patch woods may not work at all. In my country, ALONE with a coon, and even toting last strike, will win way more casts that not. A dog needs to participate if they strike at your feet, but if it takes just a bit, mine needs to be away from the crowd. Just a personal preference.

Posted by 1nighthunter on 04-04-2013 03:57 PM:

Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by everett
Are the following the traits we should breed for to win.

strike tracks that can be teed in 20 minutes or less.

leave fast looking for a coon

drift tracks opening here and there.

be independent if necessary.

ability to lay a coon up.

get treed and stay right or wrong.

Just switch to a walker dog problem solved

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Posted by everett on 04-04-2013 04:05 PM:

agree

once again, yep I like them to get gone and get under a coon, if the other hounds tag along that,s fine, on the other hand I don,t want one out cold trailing half the night while other dogs in the cast are looking at coons, I guess for me the bottom line is, Get under a coon quick as possible.......Gerald

Posted by byrd, lance on 04-04-2013 04:21 PM:

Re: Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
that part is NECESSARY if they are going to eat feed at my house....not just a little bit independent either....

There was a dog that won all over this country and had his praises sung by the masses at how good this hound was. I mean this sucker was a big time winner at big hunts. I finally got the chance to draw him. You talk about an absolute piece of junk. Got struck quick and backed every dog that made a tree. If a dog loaded up on a tree, that sucker was breaking his neck to get there. I wouldn't have fed this counterfeit sucker one bite of my dog feed, but he had won all over the country.

What fits your mold of a winner might not fit someone elses. A ME TOOing sucker that gets open quick CAN and WILL win if you take him to town enough.

One that REALLY suites me may be too independent for some and in far north patch woods may not work at all. In my country, ALONE with a coon, and even toting last strike, will win way more casts that not. A dog needs to participate if they strike at your feet, but if it takes just a bit, mine needs to be away from the crowd. Just a personal preference.

Truthfully too many of us (including myself ) judge a dog on one hunt. Every dog has an off night. I personally will never prefer a hound that skips tracks to get alone. I have been on two casts personally where the cast winner had over 400 and the PKC popular track skippers scored 0. Those hounds looked bad on those nights. That type of independence is mostly trained into hounds by the person who trained them. They are simply trained not to tree or hunt with other hounds. Is that really natural independence at all? That is why many of them fail to reproduce the extreme alone they display themselves. JMHO

Posted by Mad-Dog on 04-04-2013 04:27 PM:

agree

The dog that can tree the most coon in the least amount of time is what I want..........Tim

Posted by hat creek mac on 04-04-2013 05:18 PM:

Re: Re: Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by byrd, lance
Truthfully too many of us (including myself ) judge a dog on one hunt. Every dog has an off night. I personally will never prefer a hound that skips tracks to get alone. I have been on two casts personally where the cast winner had over 400 and the PKC popular track skippers scored 0. Those hounds looked bad on that night. That type of independence is mostly trained into hounds by the person who trained them. They are simply trained not to tree or hunt with other hounds. Is that really natural independence at all? That is why many of them fail to reproduce the extreme alone they display themselves. JMHO

how many of these have you trained?

For you to say "PKC popular track skippers" shows a mind set that has been instilled by someone, most likely a mentor. If you can beat these so-called "track skippers" so easily, why wouldn't you go get some of their money???

Please don't say that their old sorry slick treers that can "win without looking at a coon" can beat old me too at his own game?

If we are "skipping" cold tracks to get to a hotter one that can be treed faster isn't that the same thing.

I can guarantee you that their have been some that lived here that were dang sure never "TAUGHT" to get by theirself and spent the majority of their time that way.

If you want to hunt a packer, that is your choice. I choose not to.

As for judging that dog on one hunt, I had heard he was that way before I drew him......HE WAS!

Posted by hat creek mac on 04-04-2013 05:21 PM:

Re: agree

quote:
Originally posted by Mad-Dog
The dog that can tree the most coon in the least amount of time is what I want..........Tim

hey I'm all in on this statement

as long as they are the one that actually trees the coon

Posted by byrd, lance on 04-04-2013 05:51 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
how many of these have you trained?

For you to say "PKC popular track skippers" shows a mind set that has been instilled by someone, most likely a mentor. If you can beat these so-called "track skippers" so easily, why wouldn't you go get some of their money???

Please don't say that their old sorry slick treers that can "win without looking at a coon" can beat old me too at his own game?

If we are "skipping" cold tracks to get to a hotter one that can be treed faster isn't that the same thing.

I can guarantee you that their have been some that lived here that were dang sure never "TAUGHT" to get by theirself and spent the majority of their time that way.

If you want to hunt a packer, that is your choice. I choose not to.

As for judging that dog on one hunt, I had heard he was that way before I drew him......HE WAS!

Man, you put a lot of words in my mouth. Personally I want a hound like Tim described. By track skippers I was referring to the dog that skips good tracks not old cold tracks. Hope that clarifies things. Those type are popular around here. If you like that type hound that's fine. There are several others that do too. To each their own. Btw I draw those type in the state hunts and larger events fairly regularly. They are almost always hounds that their owners hunt PKC mostly.

Posted by willscreek1 on 04-04-2013 07:03 PM:

Re: Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
that part is NECESSARY if they are going to eat feed at my house....not just a little bit independent either....

There was a dog that won all over this country and had his praises sung by the masses at how good this hound was. I mean this sucker was a big time winner at big hunts. I finally got the chance to draw him. You talk about an absolute piece of junk. Got struck quick and backed every dog that made a tree. If a dog loaded up on a tree, that sucker was breaking his neck to get there. I wouldn't have fed this counterfeit sucker one bite of my dog feed, but he had won all over the country.

What fits your mold of a winner might not fit someone elses. A ME TOOing sucker that gets open quick CAN and WILL win if you take him to town enough.

One that REALLY suites me may be too independent for some and in far north patch woods may not work at all. In my country, ALONE with a coon, and even toting last strike, will win way more casts that not. A dog needs to participate if they strike at your feet, but if it takes just a bit, mine needs to be away from the crowd. Just a personal preference.

ive drawn that dog to lol put em in the middle of 3 like you and i want to pack and he will win way more than his share--add another like him and they will both fall apart more times than not.........

never trained any to be independent--wouldnt spend that much time beating a dead horse that wont reproduce what im looking for.

different horses for different courses holds true in the dog world same as any other sport.

Posted by hat creek mac on 04-04-2013 07:13 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: poll: winning traits we should breed for

quote:
Originally posted by byrd, lance
like Tim described.

all he said was the dog that treed the most coon in the least amount of time

how do you do this???

packing and backing.....or getting alone

how can you say that one can tree more coon than the other as long as they are both treeing a coon on every cut....3 on one tree and 1 on the other

its all in what you like I guess....some work better in packs...some do their thinking for themselves....

I have never proclaimed to like a hound that runs by 10 coon to get alone....I do like one that tries to get away from the pack if they are not struck very soon after being released.

I have had casts that were impossible to get alone in.....they normally had one or two that you WERE NOT going to get away from. If yours treed, old me too was on his way, 100 yards or one mile made no difference. That type dog made me LOVE the declining tree rule. That way old me too can't get 75 points at 4:59 on my tree.

If you are beating this type dog so regularly, you should really enter up and show everyone how much money you could win.

Posted by Tom Jones on 04-04-2013 07:36 PM:

is it possible

can you really teach a dog to be that independent? I dont think I would have faith in a dog that was TRAINED to stay treed and I know for a fact I wouldnt waste my time with one that you HAD to TRAIN to get by theirselves and STAY SPLIT WITH PRESSURE...........wheeeww, that would be to much pressure for ME to take

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natural gas "
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Posted by byrd, lance on 04-04-2013 07:37 PM:

If I hunted PKC I would be on prohound. I do hunt with quite a few PKC hounds. I never said I prefer a pack dog. Good luck to you and I hope your hound is throwing the traits you like.

Posted by Mad-Dog on 04-04-2013 07:49 PM:

Ritchie,
IN The phrase I used the word tree, not help tree or me too, and I think what Lance is trying to say is that when a dog is MADE independent they do not reproduce independence.

I pleasure hunt with PKC hunters that are always WORKING on their dogs for backing, if they ain't first they don't want them there. I would just as soon have the dog that is there first, with or without company...........Tim

Posted by byrd, lance on 04-04-2013 07:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mad-Dog
Ritchie,
IN The phrase I used the word tree, not help tree or me too, and I think what Lance is trying to say is that when a dog is MADE independent they do not reproduce independence.

I pleasure hunt with PKC hunters that are always WORKING on their dogs for backing, if they ain't first they don't want them there. I would just as soon have the dog that is there first, with or without company...........Tim

Yes and Yes. That is exactly the point I was attempting to make.

Posted by hat creek mac on 04-04-2013 08:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mad-Dog
Ritchie,
when a dog is MADE independent they do not reproduce independence.

I couldn't agree more...HOWEVER....all of them are NOT made to be that way...they were born that way

Posted by Tom Jones on 04-04-2013 08:27 PM:

Re: is it possible

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Jones
can you really teach a dog to be that independent? I dont think I would have faith in a dog that was TRAINED to stay treed and I know for a fact I wouldnt waste my time with one that you HAD to TRAIN to get by theirselves and STAY SPLIT WITH PRESSURE...........wheeeww, that would be to much pressure for ME to take

anybody know for sure? I dont think you can train one to do this AND be confident in it

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