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Losing Treeing Walker lines?

I would like to encourage young "breeders" and old alike to consider where our different lines or strains have gone?
Each one is like a tool and the more refined the tool (linebred) the the easier it is to use the tool.
Where is the Finley River, the Spring Creek Rock, even famous modern lines are about shot.
Every time you outcross you change the whole dynamics!
Joe House understood,Jim Meeks of Yadkin River understood,etc. etc.
That is how they became set strains with certain characteristics that a person could look at as a tool.Do I want or need that?
I think when people quit living on the farm anymore they lost breeding understanding, Inbreeding and linebreeding are essential to produce a set strain.

Sad to see so much hard work gone, The House boys and Clover boys have done a pretty good job! Kudos

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Fully agree with you...

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And that my friends about sums it up!!!


Conrad, GREAT POST!!!

ttt

I am no bigtime breeder or nothing like that,just a bear hunter and rabbit hunter but alot of these so called breeders are going backward fast.no nose slick treeing idiots.hard to find brains,nose, and ability anymore.i aggree with you 100%...thanks for posting

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I'm no expert, but I know there are certain studs known for throwing 2 or 3 traits. Each stud different then others, I know personally of certain breeders that line breed, also know plenty that don't. I personally have been pretty impressed with a lot of the breeding in the walker breed. Compared to some of the genetic flaws that are showing up in more common breed...I can honestly say I don't think we are doing that bad.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

It has nothing to do with the breed going down hill.
Unless you are a breeder and like to follow good set strains of hounds, then it probably does not matter.
But if you want consistent type hounds with certain traits that run in that family, then that tool is gone.

Unless someone breeds a certain line of dogs for years its hard to understand. The time, the effort and hard work put in to make sure certain traits are carried on.
That is why there are Hardwood fans, finley river fans, clover, House, Coma fans. A person knew what kind of dog that was or should be( Trait wise)

I just think it is time for more people to raise the bar and set some new or old strains again.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

quote:

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Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
It has nothing to do with the breed going down hill.
Unless you are a breeder and like to follow good set strains of hounds, then it probably does not matter.
But if you want consistent type hounds with certain traits that run in that family, then that tool is gone.

Unless someone breeds a certain line of dogs for years its hard to understand. The time, the effort and hard work put in to make sure certain traits are carried on.
That is why there are Hardwood fans, finley river fans, clover, House, Coma fans. A person knew what kind of dog that was or should be( Trait wise)

I just think it is time for more people to raise the bar and set some new or old strains again.

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__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

When you breed the female you are talking about to the male with the certain trait(hard treeing) you will get some like him, some like her, some a cross in between the two, or like one of the grandparents?
Too many apples in the basket for me.
I want to know what they are going to look like, sound like and act like for the most part.Tweak a little here and there.
Transportation has never affected breeding, Coon hunters will go! lol
Line breeding was not done because of an economic state it is a tool.
Horse breeders, cattleman, Gamefowl fanciers all use it.

One of the top cattleman in the USA, Dr. Vineyard told me one time, "When I asked how to start the best small herd i could"
He said" If you do not start with full sisters and be extremely careful to find a balanced male with the same traits you will never get there. They will never be the same,No amount of money will do it.
As a breeder i am looking for the same consistent product.

Yes a T.W. bred to a T.W. will produce little treeing walkers like a box of chocolates.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

quote:

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Originally posted by Fisher13
I'm no expert, but I know there are certain studs known for throwing 2 or 3 traits. Each stud different then others, I know personally of certain breeders that line breed, also know plenty that don't. I personally have been pretty impressed with a lot of the breeding in the walker breed. Compared to some of the genetic flaws that are showing up in more common breed...I can honestly say I don't think we are doing that bad. That being said one of the biggest studs to come along in the walker breed in the past ten years, I think needs to be castrated and never be bred again.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Fisher13
[B That being said one of the biggest studs to come along in the walker breed in the past ten years, I think needs to be castrated and never be bred again. [/B]

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Please keep to post topic

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
[
Horse breeders, cattleman, Gamefowl fanciers all use it.

One of the top cattleman in the USA, Dr. Vineyard told me one time, "When I asked how to start the best small herd i could"
He said" If you do not start with full sisters and be extremely careful to find a balanced male with the same traits you will never get there. They will never be the same,No amount of money will do it.
As a breeder i am looking for the same consistent product [/B]

---

quote:

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Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
When you breed the female you are talking about to the male with the certain trait(hard treeing) you will get some like him, some like her, some a cross in between the two, or like one of the grandparents?
Too many apples in the basket for me.
I want to know what they are going to look like, sound like and act like for the most part.Tweak a little here and there.
Transportation has never affected breeding, Coon hunters will go! lol
Line breeding was not done because of an economic state it is a tool.
Horse breeders, cattleman, Gamefowl fanciers all use it.

One of the top cattleman in the USA, Dr. Vineyard told me one time, "When I asked how to start the best small herd i could"
He said" If you do not start with full sisters and be extremely careful to find a balanced male with the same traits you will never get there. They will never be the same,No amount of money will do it.
As a breeder i am looking for the same consistent product.

Yes a T.W. bred to a T.W. will produce little treeing walkers like a box of chocolates.

---

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

Just like ignorance is dangerous, bad breeding practices in what ever system you use is the same.

Love to see those guys maintain a good line of dogs and keep them moving forward with balanced traits, that's a true breeder to me.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

i would have to say titles would be the doom of the differant strains.
Clover blood you can get all grand and it is still alive today.

Finley river,Yadkin river yeah they are still around and some are line breeding on it but not in high demand because they dont carry a all grand pedigree.
I like when dogs are bred for traits but i can understand why they bred for titles because that just makes the pups easier to sell,good or bad.

quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Probably should have castrated his daddy.

---

__________________
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NITECH GRCH SHANNON'S HILLBILLY HANGOVER (RIP)
NITECH GRCH SHANNON'S HILLBILLY COOKIE HTX & PKC MONEY WON ( 3 times World Qualifier) (RIP)
NITECH GRCH HTX PR SHANNON'S HILLBILLY CHIEF 1 WIN FROM GRANDNITECH
PR SHANNON’S HILLBILLY MAXIE

If you can read this thank a TEACHER
If you can read this in English, thank a VETERAN

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quote:

---

Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Just like ignorance is dangerous, bad breeding practices in what ever system you use is the same.

Love to see those guys maintain a good line of dogs and keep them moving forward with balanced traits, that's a true breeder to me.

---

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

quote:

---

Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Just like ignorance is dangerous, bad breeding practices in what ever system you use is the same.

---

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Larry is right, it will keep rearing it's ugly head.lol
Fisher 13
The intangibles are what you are looking for!
That is why I believe so much in line breeding, They are so hard to find I do not want to loose them. I only keep the pups in the litter that show the exact same intangibles. Then breed them to someone in that line that has the intangibles, constantly weeding out those that do not have. Be for long they are becoming more consistent to the traits you want your dogs to have.
All it takes is one time getting off track and you can throw something in there that ajax cant wash out, learned the hard way.lol Gotta stay with the program, it's hard work.

That's why I hate to see some of these good ole lines go away.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Some one please pm me about what stud in the last ten years should be casterated thank you.

You can't exactly compare breeding cattle to breeding coon hounds.

Physical characteristics are relatively easy to breed for.

Things that make a hound great like nose, intelligence, heart, and disposition are not nearly as easy to nail down.

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You are absolutely right Mr Carroll..way more ingredients goes in to making a good coondog, then they have to get it the right hands

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Mr Carroll, You are right they are different but my point is lines are easier to tweek and control than that big ocean of always outcrossing. There are things in breeding that only God controls Kind of like our kids personalities.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

I had an uncle that had his own line of Catahoula cur dogs. They were not registered dogs, just some dogs he started. He kept that line going for around 60 years. They were used as stock dogs and for hunting hogs. People came from all over the country to get dogs from him. His dogs were line bred. I don't know exactly how he done it all but he line bred these dogs without them being to close. His dogs were known to have certain abilities and traits. Now not all the dogs he produced made it. I heard too that some of the dogs he used to breed with weren't all that great in the woods but on a very consistent basis he produced good dogs from his line bred dogs. I have a dog now out of that line that is around 12 years old. When he was 6 months old I showed him a small hog. He lost his mind. It was like he knew exactly what it was and what he was supposed to do. After that, all he had to do was to be took to the woods and it all came natural to him. It was the same way when I showed him cattle. It was in him so much you just had to take him and the rest just happened on its own. He's been bred just a few times. A couple females carried the same old blood as him and there were some good pups from them. He produced some on a couple other females that he was nowhere near related to. For whatever reason my uncle's line of dogs is sort of fading out. Most people out crossed them instead of doing any line breeding to them. I get sad sometimes when I think about it cause sometime soon my uncle's line will fade away.

I decided I wanted to get into coon hunting and soon figured out that there was a little more to training a coon dog. I have always wondered if there was a line or strain of coon dogs that would compare to my uncle's dogs in the train ability department. The kind that just have it in them so much that all you have to do is just make a way for them.

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''YOU GOTTA WANT IT!''

I myself had gotten out of the sport 20 years ago and got back into this great sport and have noticed the same thing with this new line of dogs we ahve today. In the last 2 years I have tried English , B&T and noticed exactly what you are talking about. The old lines are gone. Now that im back and tried the other breeds im going back to my old faithfull WALKER HOUND. And yes what I want just dont seam to be out there anymore unless it is 4 to 6 generations back. I think if it is that far back allready it is lost. My opinion is the good old $ took over the sport and it is only going to get worse with this X breeding starting. The days of buying good old blooded pups for $200 that would run any track hot or cold lay-ups are gone now its $700 or more for a pup blow thru the woods type dog 4-5 slicks before they actualy tree a coon & pass up several doing it. We need to get the old blood back in the sport not the $$$$