UKC Forums - Hunt type preference

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-12-2017 04:51 PM:

Hunt type preference

I am interested in what makes us "tick" and what makes us "tickled". To that end, what are your preferences to the hunt type?

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Posted by Luther's Fiest on 01-17-2017 10:13 PM:

Should have an option for pleasure hunting. Jmo

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Posted by Randy Wolfe on 01-17-2017 10:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Luther's Fiest
Should have an option for pleasure hunting. Jmo

Jesse ,They're Trying To Set Some Kinda Of A Hunt Format For UKC Sq Hunts .

Posted by Luther's Fiest on 01-18-2017 10:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Randy Wolfe
Jesse ,They're Trying To Set Some Kinda Of A Hunt Format For UKC Sq Hunts .

That thought never crossed my mind.

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Hunt em hard, cull em harder
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Posted by Lakeview Kennel on 01-20-2017 03:17 AM:

UKC World Hunt?????

Can some tell me where to find the rules for the UKC World Squirrel Hunt for the cur dog part of this hunt. I hear that the rules being used for scoring trees are very similar to NSD rules. Please tell me I have been misinformed. Please tell me only cast winners with + points will advance.

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Posted by McSquizzie on 01-20-2017 08:36 PM:

In NSD hunts you can win without plus points? What a crock. I hope ukc doesn't got any route.

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Posted by Sy Sparks on 02-06-2017 09:22 PM:

You can win money in NSD for - and circle points but you won't get any points towards champion titles, DOY, or placement for the state races.

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 02-17-2017 12:32 PM:

Re: UKC World Hunt?????

quote:
Originally posted by Lakeview Kennel
Can some tell me where to find the rules for the UKC World Squirrel Hunt for the cur dog part of this hunt. I hear that the rules being used for scoring trees are very similar to NSD rules. Please tell me I have been misinformed. Please tell me only cast winners with + points will advance.

I am going to tell you that you have been informed correctly.

This is in response to multiple requests from folks that wanted to attend the event, but know that the likelihood of going out in late rounds and treeing those pesky little Kentucky grey squirrels is more of a "wish" than a reality.

This is in response to the fact that half of the field has historically been eliminated on the second round, due to the fact that due to the format, you are more than likely hunting when the squirrels are denned up, not out and about.

We don't expect the second round in the UKC World Coon Hunt to go out at 6:00 in the evening....when there is a slight chance that a dog could actually tree a coon in the late evening, but it's not really likely.....but we expect guys to travel hundreds or even a thousand miles to hunt when the squirrels are not stirring....then tell them "sorry, you have to go home because we didin't see your squirrel."

This levels the playing field a little so that one guy who has ties to someone that has permission to hunt that little pocket of fox squirrels but saves them for "late rounds" and wins by simply being able to hunt where the game is active.....

Is it a "perfect" format? Probably not. But it still allows for that dog that is able to score a squirrel on the outside to win and advance, without punishing the dog that trees a squirrel on a den tree but doesn't take minus.

Let's face it, the UKC program has not exactly "been on fire" for the past several years. What we have been doing isn't exactly popular, so maybe, just maybe it's time for a change in the way we do things?

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UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Lakeview Kennel on 02-17-2017 03:00 PM:

UKC Hunts

I live less than a hr from where the world hunt is being held at this year. And you don't have to find a pocket if red squirrel to be able to tree squirrels in the time the late round will be held. This time of year gray squirrels move pretty much all day.
I can maybe see letting a dog advance on circle but only circle real den trees. Don't let it get like NSD and circle every tree you can't find a squirrel in. A real squirrel dog will timber a squirrel to the tree in stops in.
On the one and only NSD hunt I went on they were circling trees no bigger around than a pop can. The dogs on the cast I was on also circled a tree that was off game. All the dogs in the cast treed in on it. It was easy to see that there was nothing else in the tree. I voted to minus it but was out voted.
I guess what I'm getting at is most people that I know don't want to see UKC get to where you don't need an honest dog to win.

Oak Ridge where can I find the rules the UKC cur dogs will hunt under. A lot of us cur hunters around Ky would like to look at them before we decide if we are going to Corbin to hunt.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 02-21-2017 03:39 PM:

Re: UKC Hunts

quote:
Originally posted by Lakeview Kennel
I live less than a hr from where the world hunt is being held at this year. And you don't have to find a pocket if red squirrel to be able to tree squirrels in the time the late round will be held. This time of year gray squirrels move pretty much all day.
I can maybe see letting a dog advance on circle but only circle real den trees. Don't let it get like NSD and circle every tree you can't find a squirrel in. A real squirrel dog will timber a squirrel to the tree in stops in.
On the one and only NSD hunt I went on they were circling trees no bigger around than a pop can. The dogs on the cast I was on also circled a tree that was off game. All the dogs in the cast treed in on it. It was easy to see that there was nothing else in the tree. I voted to minus it but was out voted.
I guess what I'm getting at is most people that I know don't want to see UKC get to where you don't need an honest dog to win.

Oak Ridge where can I find the rules the UKC cur dogs will hunt under. A lot of us cur hunters around Ky would like to look at them before we decide if we are going to Corbin to hunt.

Well, here is the deal. I've been working on a "publication" for the world hunt "rules". The issue is that UKC did not have the world hunt format written down or documented. Looks like they were flying by the seat of their pants...

Here is an "early" draft of the changes to the rules that will be in play.

Full Elimination Format
In the full elimination style format, all three categories (Registered, Champions, and Grands) are drawn out and compete together.

First round winners are to be drawn into a second round. Second round cast winners are to be drawn into casts if necessary to get to a final cast.

Cast winners are decided by scores Dogs with plus point cast wins, and dogs with total score of zero (circle points only) cast winners will advance.

NO CAST WINNERS WITH TOTAL SCORE OF MINUS POINTS WILL ADVANCE. *Because non-pus point cast winners advance in this format. Championship points towards champion degrees are not awarded under this format.

The final cast will hunt the regulation time, however, in case of a tie at the end of regulation time the dogs will hunt in a sudden death overtime in increments of one hour until a dog is declared the winner.
Initial Rounds will be utilizing hunting judges

My whole mind set is to award the dog that goes and trees a squirrel These are in fact "honor rules", which means that the rules are only as good as the folks in the cast...I'm pretty sure that in NSD, a tree with "tree game" is to be deleted. But if a cast decides to deviate from the "rules" and uses their own type of judgement, and nobody questions it....it will stand. And the honest member of the cast goes home feeling cheated. One of UKC's Logos has the words "Honor to Whom Honor is Due"....nothing could be further from the truth.

I have an idea of ways to make the hunt run more efficiently, and get guys out in the woods in a better way.....we will have a great hunt, I encourage you to come give us a try!

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UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Oak Ridge on 02-21-2017 03:39 PM:

Re: UKC Hunts

quote:
Originally posted by Lakeview Kennel
I live less than a hr from where the world hunt is being held at this year. And you don't have to find a pocket if red squirrel to be able to tree squirrels in the time the late round will be held. This time of year gray squirrels move pretty much all day.
I can maybe see letting a dog advance on circle but only circle real den trees. Don't let it get like NSD and circle every tree you can't find a squirrel in. A real squirrel dog will timber a squirrel to the tree in stops in.
On the one and only NSD hunt I went on they were circling trees no bigger around than a pop can. The dogs on the cast I was on also circled a tree that was off game. All the dogs in the cast treed in on it. It was easy to see that there was nothing else in the tree. I voted to minus it but was out voted.
I guess what I'm getting at is most people that I know don't want to see UKC get to where you don't need an honest dog to win.

Oak Ridge where can I find the rules the UKC cur dogs will hunt under. A lot of us cur hunters around Ky would like to look at them before we decide if we are going to Corbin to hunt.

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UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by ky cur hunter on 03-11-2017 10:08 PM:

????

What other cur guys in ky have the same opinion as you? I honestly haven't met them. You are the only person I have ever heard complain. Also I highly doubt they were circling trees like this in the hunt but probably a legit place of refuge inside the allotted area around the tree. Do you kill a squirrel to your dogs if it isn't in the exact tree it was treeing on?

Posted by Lakeview Kennel on 03-12-2017 04:04 AM:

world hunt

I guess u haven't been at a lot of hunts talking to people. Or you could just look at the number of cur dogs that showed up for the hunt. That should explain everything.

Posted by ky cur hunter on 03-12-2017 05:45 AM:

Curs

Top 7 of the hunt you are referring to.5 omcba 1 treeing cur 1 hound. What did I miss and I have been to plenty of hunts. That's the only one I have ever saw you at. I have hunted nsd usdc omcba and nkc in years past.

Posted by Lakeview Kennel on 03-12-2017 08:09 AM:

what hunt

I have know ideal what u are talking about when u say top 7 of the hunt. And don't think u have seen me at any hunts. I just know a lot of people that hunt some hunts and a lot of them didn't go to the UKC world because of the circle point rule. If you think I was at that UKC hunt your 100% wrong. If I would of come I'd been sure to hunt a feist.
Maybe your saying you made it to the top 7. If so good for you. I'm glad but would u of made it that far without the circle point rule passing you to the next round. And if you did get in on plus even better for u. Think of all the dogs that didn't tree anything first round but still got threw. You wouldn't of had to hunt against them if that rule wasn't changed.
This is just what I think. If you don't agree I can't help that. I don't think any dog should advance in a UKC hunt without plus points. Maybe I'm wrong but its been that way for ever and its seemed to work. How many coon hounds advanced at the UKC world hunt this year on circle points? NOT A ONE !!!!!!!

Posted by ky cur hunter on 03-12-2017 08:24 PM:

I'm referring to the nsd hunt you mentioned. I was the hunt director there I can guarantee you are the only person I have ever had at our club that complained. From everything you say you like nkc sounds like your registry.

Posted by Lakeview Kennel on 03-13-2017 01:08 AM:

hunts

Your 100% right. NSD is not for me and I'm not saying its not a good bunch of people to hunt with. I'm just old school and like to see game in the tree.
Now maybe you can clear up a couple questions I have. At the NSD squirrel hunt we are talking about was the rules followed correctly when all 3 dogs stuck the coon on the ground ran the track close to 50 yard and treed it. I thought it should be minused but I was informed that off game treed was circled. What should of been done?
Also here's another question for you. When the dog treed up the tree about as big around as a pop can and it didn't touch another tree or even come very close to another tree especially a den tree what should of been done.
Again I'm not saying its not a good bunch of people. I just don't understand the rules I guess. I couldn't of asked for nicer people to hunt with. I drew the hound you mentioned and also a cur female which was by far the best dog in our cast. But she didn't win the cast do to all the circle points the hound had. In the cast I was in it just felt like the dog that really made den trees where a squirrel probably was got beat by a dog that was making trees that it was plain to see was slick. Now the pup I was hunting was no competition for either of dogs I drew. She knew better that to back that dog on all those trees and the cur female was just a lot better dog than the pup I was hunting.
If you can let me know if those trees were scored right. Thanks and good hunting.

Posted by ky cur hunter on 03-13-2017 03:59 AM:

Tree

If the coon was seen should have been deleted. Now remember we're not in a coon hunt here completely different type of game. The tree a dog is treed on doesn't necessarily meen you only look at that tree they have a area of different steps for different registrations. If a squirrel has place of refuge inside those steps it is circled with the leaves in full foliage I'm sure it was scored correctly.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 03-13-2017 02:24 PM:

Re: UKC Hunts

quote:
Originally posted by Lakeview Kennel
I live less than a hr from where the world hunt is being held at this year. And you don't have to find a pocket if red squirrel to be able to tree squirrels in the time the late round will be held. This time of year gray squirrels move pretty much all day.
I can maybe see letting a dog advance on circle but only circle real den trees. Don't let it get like NSD and circle every tree you can't find a squirrel in. A real squirrel dog will timber a squirrel to the tree in stops in.
On the one and only NSD hunt I went on they were circling trees no bigger around than a pop can. The dogs on the cast I was on also circled a tree that was off game. All the dogs in the cast treed in on it. It was easy to see that there was nothing else in the tree. I voted to minus it but was out voted.
I guess what I'm getting at is most people that I know don't want to see UKC get to where you don't need an honest dog to win.

Oak Ridge where can I find the rules the UKC cur dogs will hunt under. A lot of us cur hunters around Ky would like to look at them before we decide if we are going to Corbin to hunt.

I've held off responding to this post until I had something to "back it up".

If you live "less than an hour" away from the hunt, and you didn't attend...YOU MISSED OUT.

We hunted 55 dogs On Saturday morning, I sent 19 casts to the woods. Those 19 casts scored on a grand total of 7 squirrels. And we advanced dogs on circle points.

If you live "less than an hour" away from the hunt, and you were not there to guide a cast to the great hunting that you have, then you cheated all of those folks that drove from Michigan, Alabama, Indiana, Georgia, West Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and from you own home state in Kentucky. out of the ability to get in all of the great squirrel population

At the end of the weekend, we advanced dogs until we were down to three....and the most consistent squirrel treeing dogs were in the final three dogs, and the dog that treed the most squirrels in the final cast won the hunt.

I don't have anything against NSD. But I don't understand why you feel the need to find something "wrong" with every registry that sanctions squirrel hunts. I noticed that by your signature that you are a coon hunter. I too am a coon hunter.....but I don't believe that squirrel dogs should be held to the same "standard" as coon dogs, because these are squirrel dogs, not coon dogs. Squirrels and coon are different animals with different habits, and different abilities.

I can respect your choice, and will defend it. But you should be able to do the same. There was a choice to allow dogs to advance on circle points in a full elimination style event for the curs, to encourage folks to travel to the hunt. This isn't and wasn't a "local" event. The guys from Georgia and Alabama that drove for 10 hours to get there knew they were coming to steep ground with a less than optimal squirrel population...but they came ONLY because they knew that if there dog did it's job, they could at least have a chance to hunt again.

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Posted by Lakeview Kennel on 03-13-2017 04:06 PM:

Hunt

First I'd like to say that from everything I've been told it was a great hunt. But I'm still sticking to what I've said from the start. I've hunted UKC hunts for almost 40 years and have hunted from the smallest UKC hunt to the biggest. In those years I've been asked many a times why I didn't hunt the other hunts that paid money to the winners and I always gave the same answer to everyone. I'd say I like hunting UKC because I know that if I get beat I at least know I got beat by a dog that can tree a coon. And I really hope that I can continue to say that on the coon hunting side.
When we talk about people driving a long ways to hunt and would only come if they new they could advance on circle points here are my thoughts on that. Me and the people I hunt with have went to a lot of hunts that were several hrs away and we went knowing that the weather was calling for rain and wind and snow or just call it weather that coons are more than likely going to not be moving or if they were they would stay really close to their den. And when we would get to these hunts there would be more hunters that had done the same as us. And even with the weather being bad and more chance of not treeing a coon than treeing one we still paid our entry fee and went hunting. A lot of nights we wouldn't tree any but we supported UKC.
Now Joe to the part of you saying I cheated all the folks that hunted the hunt by not guiding a cast. Well when people get on this forum and say stuff about people before they know the truth is what's wrong with most things now days. I was called over a month ago and asked to guide a cast and I said that I would without even having to think about it. The problem that me and the man that got all the guides figured out was from Corbin the places that I have to hunt were almost 1:20 away. So we figured that was a little to much drive time to get there and back. Also him and I talked about places closer to Corbin to hunt and I went and looked at a couple places. Those places were way to close to a main road for me to turn my dog loose and I sure wasn't going to ask anyone else to do that. So before you tell someone their cheating everyone you should probably find out if what your saying is true or not. In this case its not and I wouldn't of expected someone speaking for UKC to say things about people without checking the facts first. Hopefully next time you want to say something about someone you will make sure what your saying is true.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 03-13-2017 09:00 PM:

Sir I appreciate your looking into guiding. I really do...but the effect was the same. I also appreciate your comments about having game....I really do.

However, we are not coon hunting. One thing that I have learned is the folks that coon hunt (and I am included in that circle) expect for dogs to have the game when they tree. I know that from time to time the squirrel (let's stick to squirrel hunting here, because we are talking about squirrel hunting) is going to be in a nest, or in a den tree..... That does not reflect on my dog...or it's ability.

The simple fact is that while I hear your opinion, and I respect you for having it....there were 89 folks that laid down their money, and spent time to come to Corbin KY and hunt this past weekend. Some would argue that it was a collection of some of the best squirrel dogs in the country. I know that in the Cur part of the hunt, I sent out 19 casts of dogs in the first round, and in total, they scored on 7 squirrels.

55 dogs and they scored on 11 squirrels...only 7 cast winners with plus points in the early round.. The Feist hunt entered 34 dogs, and they eliminated all but two in two rounds....so there were only 7 dogs out of 34 advanced which turns out to be 20% of the dogs even treed a squirrel. In the second round, only 28% of the dogs treed a squirrel. The only reason I bring up the Feist is that they are supposed to be sight driven dogs.....

This tells me that the game just didn't cooperate. Either one of two things was for sure..... There just are not very many squirrels, or we have a problem with the rules or the formatting of the hunts..

The only complaints about the hunt that I have heard, and believe me I have asked, is from folks that didn't come.

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UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Pleasure Ridge on 03-18-2017 08:29 PM:

The Feist World hunt had 34 dogs which broke down to 12 cast 10-3 dog and 2-2 dogs, of 12 cast 7 progressed meaning 60% of cast progressed in first round with 7 sq seen. Second round was 7 dogs 1-3 dog cast and 2-2 dog cast seeing 5 sq, 2 of the 3 cast progressed with a 66.6% cast ratio progressing ending in a final round of 1-2 dog cast with two sq seen. All progression was on plus points only. Not all dogs who treed a sq progressed only + point cast winners did

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