Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Uniontown,Ohio
Posts: 141

Was wondering why Ukc doesn't open the shows up like they do the coonhounds for the beagles? I don't understand this complete hound thing? What if u have a 8-9month old pup?. While he is learning to better him or herself in the field,a person could be putting its show titles on it..gives them opertunity with ther dog,and gives the club&ukc more $$$$$$...think it should be up to the people if they want a hunter or just a show dog ! If that's what Ukc is worried about..they could always put some kind of division in for the hunting dog/show dog to promote the complete hound! Ukc.does this for the coonhounds,it could be done! I'm not bashing anyone,just trying to figure out why they don't open the bench shows ,I feel this is money, clubs &ukc is losing
Out on...just wondered what u all thought?

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 34

Great idea.I think would, up numbers at the hunts. and open up a whole new word for show people

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Registered: Jan 2015
Location: canton ohio
Posts: 73

sounds good what do you have to do to get this started

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: ohio
Posts: 3

I really didnt think it would be close at all! Seems like a no brainer to me! Wonder if the majority are afraid of alitl competition??? Lol.one thing I do know is wether or not a person wants a show dog.or a hunting dog.or a combo dog, they all have the same color Money!!!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: fredericksburg va.
Posts: 370

To an extent, especially to a younger dog/ puppy class. Mostly just to get a young dog use to coming to a hunt, and being around dogs it's not use to

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 305

I like it the way it is if you open it up then alot of the hunting beagles won't be showing cause you will be bringing in all the show dogs they have confirmation shows just for show beagles this is for hunting style beagles just my opinion

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 34

Sounds like some people just afraid of competition in my opinion if you have a dog that you feel is worthy of showing in the bench show there should be no prolbem showing against a show dog its still just another beagle lol

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Uniontown,Ohio
Posts: 141

I just know how large some of the other Ukc.bench shows are in say the coonhounds..and think it should be that way for us beaglers...imagine how much money they would loose if they made the grand American,or Autumn Oaks..show for hunters only?????they have a class for the hunting dogs,they could have a class called hunting beagle ?..believe they already have one anyway rite????(hbch..) could do for show also.. I don't think we should tell someone to go to conformation shows only because what if they want to participate some how in the hunt..directing people away from club events don't help anyone!,,, again I think Ukc is the best registry out ther barr none!,
I just think a larger revenue for Ukc,and it's beagle division is being over looked! Thanks for ur all's comments,like to hear more,but remember its opinions,and comments,not a bash between showers&hunters!,, lol

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: NE OHIO
Posts: 832

From the UKC front page:
"The UKC has supported the "Total Dog" philosophy through its events and programs for over a century. As a departure from registries that place emphasis on a dog’s looks, UKC events are designed for dogs that look and perform equally well."

How can UKC help the beagle breed improve with respect to both conformation and performance?
At All-breed shows no emphasis exists towards hunt performance. The only programs that can guide the beagle breed in the total dog direction is through the hunt programs. A dog must show hunt instinct and ability to qualify for the bench show. That is both in line with the UKC total dog philosophy and in line with helping the beagle breed reach it's full potential.

With that said, I also believe that folks who show but do not hunt their dogs should be able to participate in some way. Maybe a special class for show dogs.

The dogs that should be placed on a pedestal should be those that have proven success in both hunt and show. My solution would be as follows:

Dog must have Hunt title of CH or GRCH by end of calendar year.
Top 16 show dogs determined according to points earned. Points earned prior to hunt CH title count.
Points earned based on the number of dogs defeated on bench: 1pt/ registered, 2pt/ CH, 3 points/ GRCH.
Top 16 dogs have a run-off and show-off.
Place them 1-16 in both. 2 point separation between each place (2 to 32 points for each). Add their scores from hunt and show together. Dog with the highest total score would be the "Total Dog" for the year.
2 non-hunting judges each cast.
panel of 3 bench judges.

IMO! That would be a more constructive way to continue to build on a quality bench show program.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Danville Indiana
Posts: 986

quote:

---

Originally posted by TOUCHSTONEBEAGL
From the UKC front page:
"The UKC has supported the "Total Dog" philosophy through its events and programs for over a century. As a departure from registries that place emphasis on a dog’s looks, UKC events are designed for dogs that look and perform equally well."

How can UKC help the beagle breed improve with respect to both conformation and performance?
At All-breed shows no emphasis exists towards hunt performance. The only programs that can guide the beagle breed in the total dog direction is through the hunt programs. A dog must show hunt instinct and ability to qualify for the bench show. That is both in line with the UKC total dog philosophy and in line with helping the beagle breed reach it's full potential.

With that said, I also believe that folks who show but do not hunt their dogs should be able to participate in some way. Maybe a special class for show dogs.

The dogs that should be placed on a pedestal should be those that have proven success in both hunt and show. My solution would be as follows:

Dog must have Hunt title of CH or GRCH by end of calendar year.
Top 16 show dogs determined according to points earned. Points earned prior to hunt CH title count.
Points earned based on the number of dogs defeated on bench: 1pt/ registered, 2pt/ CH, 3 points/ GRCH.
Top 16 dogs have a run-off and show-off.
Place them 1-16 in both. 2 point separation between each place (2 to 32 points for each). Add their scores from hunt and show together. Dog with the highest total score would be the "Total Dog" for the year.
2 non-hunting judges each cast.
panel of 3 bench judges.

IMO! That would be a more constructive way to continue to build on a quality bench show program.

---

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: NE OHIO
Posts: 832

oops!

Last edited by TOUCHSTONEBEAGL on 01-07-2015 at 06:20 PM

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: NE OHIO
Posts: 832

Hi Don,
You are much more familiar with performance pack than I am. Is there a reason this program would not work in the PP Program? I was not considering mixing the two. If you wanted to mix them together, then the end of the year run-off would need to be 3 events like the Triple Challenge in Coshocton: HB hunt, PP Hunt, and Bench Show. Double the bench show points to keep form and function points in balance.

Dogs that get cheated through or marginally make hunt Ch would likely be at a disadvantage in the final run-off. It would take a true Total Dog to gain the points needed to win. A great way for UKC to showcase real total dogs!

The other question I was asked: What if a female comes in heat or if a dog is injured when it is time for the run-off.
Answer: Give them an invitation to the next year run-off.

The emphasis is on developing total dogs rather than continuing to split the breed into show beagles and hunt beagles. Plenty of damage has already been done in that direction. Would love to see UKC "take the bull by the horns" and build a program that is in line with their general philosophy!

Last edited by TOUCHSTONEBEAGL on 01-06-2015 at 04:23 PM

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Uniontown,Ohio
Posts: 141

U lost me with all that stuff mr.don,and mr.dan. Lol..all my concern was is to increase numbers&money for both Ukc. And the clubs...and know that people like my wife and son go with me to most hunts..ok now my sons litl gyp is not a trial dog yet.but they think she is built nice! So I thought it would give them something to do the same day as the hunt,if they could show ther dog or pup.on the bench! Ther happy! I can hunt in the hunt with my dog! And everyone had a good time! That's the scenario I'm talking about that gets overlooked by these guys,that are only worried about the Show dog (only).invading our sport...there's hunters ,hunting dogs,and people that can't run in the hunt,but would show..for several other reasons..

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