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How do you really know how cold of a nose your dog really has?OK he opens according to track,other dogs don't open on the track but in all honesty how do you really know how cold nosed he is.

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This will be interesting!

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I've tested some of mine with released coons and coons that I've seen crossing. It's even more practical now with these trail cameras that send pictures to your phone. I have experienced with this technique that it doesn't always prove that a dog is not cold nosed but helps some to give a time line on how old of a track they can smell.

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Great question! I do not think one can really know how cold a track really is, but as already stated cameras and actual sight of a coon crossing road etc. can be a good way of knowing how old the track is time wise. I think weather and temperature plays a big part in a dog being able to run a older track. I love hunting a dog that can run and tree tracks that other good dogs can not open on or even tree with that dog with the coon being seen, not just a tree. I have owned very few dogs that could do that on a consistant basis, but I enjoyed the ones that could. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Years ago I hunted with a walker female called Fannie that could work and tree a bad/cold track but I also saw a time or two when a coon crossed the road and we turned her loose and never got a bark. Go figure???

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Tom Wood

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quote:

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Originally posted by buff1978
How do you really know how cold of a nose your dog really has?OK he opens according to track,other dogs don't open on the track but in all honesty how do you really know how cold nosed he is.

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Dan

Last edited by DL NH on 08-02-2024 at 03:18 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
Not sure there is an easy answer to this question. I just know the few good cold nose dogs I’ve seen will reveal themselves overtime and a number of different nights of hunting them with other dogs for comparison under a variety of conditions.

This probably wasn’t helpful!

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Years ago I hunted with a walker female called Fannie that could work and tree a bad/cold track but I also saw a time or two when a coon crossed the road and we turned her loose and never got a bark. Go figure???

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Some say that they can all smell the same--I disagree with that idea because I have seen way to many times that hounds put down on the same track, which makes EVERYTHING the same, with your good "track" hounds will take it and work it up to a jumped race. Nose is connected to the brain and I have seen my coyote hounds smell the brush that rubbed the coyotes body when deer ran out the scent of their paws. I have seen videos of hounds out west lick the rocks to "taste" the scent of a cat to keep the race going. And it all ties into those GOOD COLD NOSE hounds having the patiences to work a track when the going gets tuff. The "ambush" hounds in todays hunts have turned out to be a little better on having a raccoon in their trees because they will only take a hot track while the hounds a few years ago that had no patiences to work a track would just quit and start treeing. As Dave Dean told me, "breed for the card."

As far as the comments of a hound not being able to take a track that just crossed the road--you have to let them "clear" their nose from being inside a box of bedding, down a dusty road. Doesn't matter if its a raccoon, bear or a coyote. Just go a 100 yards pass it, stay calm while putting their collar on and lead them back to the track and see if you don't have a better result. Nothing more funny to watch then an animal cross in front of a hunter, brake lights come on and hounds hit the front of the box, hunters jumping out and crabbing hounds, putting trackers on (most times forgetting to turn them on) and throwing hounds in the ditch to see them looking back like, "What the heck???"

Experience is still the best teacher a hounds person can ever have.

OT

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Regardless of 'what' a cold nosed dog is or 'why' they are cold nosed, I'm not taking anyone's word on it and have to see it myself. I may not be correct, but there are way too many opinions and ideas on what a good track dog is for me to take someone else's word on it. I have personally seen dogs that were described as a 'cold nosed track dog' that IMHO were 'hot nosed, silent running, ambush' style dogs. And I've seen dogs described as 'cold nosed' that worked every track slow and methodical even when they were red hot tracks off a feeder or in a corn field. A dog can be accurate and still not be a good track dog.

Truly great track dogs have always been rare and its a difficult thing to evaluate.

GES

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quote:

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Originally posted by buff1978
How do you really know how cold of a nose your dog really has?OK he opens according to track,other dogs don't open on the track but in all honesty how do you really know how cold nosed he is.

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"some of us" might. But you know and "some of us" know that a honest cold nose hound in today's World isn't what a handler wants on the end of their lead anymore. That went out with caring about looks, voice and sportsmanship.

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GPS has taught me that some dogs are pretty cold nose but not open about it. I have a dog that I can tell by the tracker that he is working a track but often he doesn't open for a while. Sometimes he opens once or twice at the beginning. Kinda like he wants to be sure he can tree it before he opens. Have seen times when another dog was opening on the track but this dog was yards ahead of him on the track. Now I like a semi dog but also appreciate on open dog, but I don't want one that barks and goes nowhere. Purchased a B&T female years ago that was supposed to be really cold nose and maybe she was, she trailed all night but she seemed to forget to tree. Before GPS we mostly assumed the dog opening on the track was the cold nose dog. My opinion has changed.

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Tom Wood

Last edited by Preacher Tom on 08-04-2024 at 01:11 AM

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IMO cold nose doesn't make the better dog…but when a cold nosed dog is a great hunting dog…it will have the advantage because it can smell game the other dogs can't, especially when game is scarce…

I've also seen cold nosed dogs step in every track a hog took during the night before and that is frustrating. A good cold nosed dog should make it look easy working a track…

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My definition and my like is a cold nosed dog that can RUN a track that other good dogs can NOT even smell and put a tree with the coon seen, a tree where other good dogs can not even tree with or smell. Poor track dogs are often regarded as cold nosed, that is incorrect in my opinion. I want a dog to run the track, not wallow around all night. Excellent track dogs are getting rare as hens teeth in my opinion as we are breeding out the nose it takes to be a excellent track dog, one that can actually run a colder track and show the game when treed . Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Since this subject came up, I've been googling dog's smelling ability. Researchers have done studies on canine scenting. They even used wolves and coyotes in the study. They found that wolves and coyotes have better noses than domestic dogs. Among domestic dogs they found almost no difference between a bloodhound and a pug. The difference we notice depends on what a dog is bred for. I have a little female that seems to be cold nosed. She hunts slow and trails slow. I also have a 75 pound male out of Big Country that seems to be more of the type you call a competition dog. He hunts hard and fast. (Too much for me at 81 years old). I've seen this female strike behind him a few times. He always comes back and runs the track with her. Faster than her. So, he can smell the track. It's like he runs over it because he's looking for something hotter. He's treed plenty coons alone, so he doesn't need help. To me it seems like we've bred out the desire to cold trail more than we bred out the nose.

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
Since this subject came up, I've been googling dog's smelling ability. Researchers have done studies on canine scenting. They even used wolves and coyotes in the study. They found that wolves and coyotes have better noses than domestic dogs. Among domestic dogs they found almost no difference between a bloodhound and a pug. The difference we notice depends on what a dog is bred for. I have a little female that seems to be cold nosed. She hunts slow and trails slow. I also have a 75 pound male out of Big Country that seems to be more of the type you call a competition dog. He hunts hard and fast. (Too much for me at 81 years old). I've seen this female strike behind him a few times. He always comes back and runs the track with her. Faster than her. So, he can smell the track. It's like he runs over it because he's looking for something hotter. He's treed plenty coons alone, so he doesn't need help. To me it seems like we've bred out the desire to cold trail more than we bred out the nose.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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For some dogs the reward is running the track. They will do it no matter how old it is. For others the tree and what is in it is the reward. So they are going to run what can be finished quickly. And for even others, just moving quickly is the reward, and the track and tree are so fresh they just can't help but stop and tree it.

They all have basically the same ability to smell

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quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
They all have basically the same ability to smell

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I agree with you 100%. They may all have 4 legs, a tail and a nose but they sure as heck are NOT able to smell the same.

I must also say that some maybe caused by the “trainer” not allowing them to learn how to track. You hunt feeders, live trap and turn out on a released raccoon or in the fox/coyote world turn out on hot tracks. Today, everyone wants a winner and have no time to waste. If you’re one of them that have little patience you probably won’t ever enjoy what that young hound could “really” become. To me, I really enjoy sitting in the woods and listen/watch a young hound work that track and keep trying until that night they open and work it and not make any losses to the tree or strapping on a pair of snowshoes and taking that young coyote hound and walking out a cold track until “we” get it jumped and by the end of the season I can put it on the same type of track and they take it on their own and jump it.
That is why I got into this back in 1956 and I am so thankful for all the “Old Timers” that had the patience to teach a young pup the true reason to hunt with a hound.

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quote:

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Originally posted by OLD TIMER
I agree with you 100%. They may all have 4 legs, a tail and a nose but they sure as heck are NOT able to smell the same.

I must also say that some maybe caused by the “trainer” not allowing them to learn how to track. You hunt feeders, live trap and turn out on a released raccoon or in the fox/coyote world turn out on hot tracks. Today, everyone wants a winner and have no time to waste. If you’re one of them that have little patience you probably won’t ever enjoy what that young hound could “really” become. To me, I really enjoy sitting in the woods and listen/watch a young hound work that track and keep trying until that night they open and work it and not make any losses to the tree or strapping on a pair of snowshoes and taking that young coyote hound and walking out a cold track until “we” get it jumped and by the end of the season I can put it on the same type of track and they take it on their own and jump it.
That is why I got into this back in 1956 and I am so thankful for all the “Old Timers” that had the patience to teach a young pup the true reason to hunt with a hound.

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I know that there are hounds that have a better nose than others.

But I also think that some are trained so they don't learn how to use their nose was the point I was trying to make.

Say like a 20 something young lady that thinks shes as good as Ms Clark in basketball--They have all the same equipment, heck they may even look like twins, but there's just that something Ms Clark has that makes her better at "her game." The same is true in hounds, they all have the same equipment, but some are better at their game. And training can get them better and maybe to their best of their abilty--but some just have that special something. The night I seen that first hand was when my young Mikie took a track out across an iced over harvest corn field and Cheta II couldn't run with him. Now Cheta had a heck of a nose and I seen her open and move a track while the other 3 in the cast didn't know a coon had been there. After a 1/4 mile they finally joined in and they did tree it. Mikie was young and I was thinking that maybe this didn't have a ringtail. But when he located and started counting them off, that was the night that proved to me that they all can not smell the track the same.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
All I can say about this comment is if you really believe this you’ve never owned a truly cold nosed hound or seen one in action. I’m not talking about a track straddler that many think is a cold nosed dog which often actually turns out to be at best a medium nosed dog that can’t move a track.

Ask the successful big game hound men & some women that hunt mountain lions and bobcat on snow in the sub zero temps and dry powder snow. I’ve heard this “all dogs can smell the same” for years and it’s just plain false.

I’ve owned and hunted hounds for over 40 years and I know better than to think that all hounds can smell the same. It’s not true.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Years ago I had a walker female she was young probably around 2 years old.a buddy and me decided to go hunting one night.it was cold and a foot of snow on the ground.we cut her loose by herself into a timber little while she fell treed.went to the tree and it was a den but the coon was seen.i got thinking she didn't open on track I wonder if this coon had been down walking.me and my buddy circled that tree quite a few times and didn't see any coon tracks anywhere in the snow.i don't know if you would consider her cold nosed or not but I was impressed although I know there's alot of scent on den trees.

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I sincerely hope that every hunter will have at least 1 experience in their hunting lifetime to witness a true cold nosed dog. One that runs not wallows a track, but runs a track that known good dogs can not smell. A dog that opens their eyes to a true cold nosed dog. I have been fortunate to own a few, not many that could do this and they were fun to hunt. I would really love to own one more before my hunting days are over. Dave

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