Registered: Jun 2005
Location: North of Panama City Florida
Posts: 1014

what type dog do most of you hunt on bear, lion, and bobcat?

long time big game bred hounds? running dog hound mixes? coondog blood?

do you have different types of dogs for trailing and running?

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Most of what we run is what we have bred for years for bear.We will at times cross in some"coonstock" if it has the traits we like,cold nose grit speed ect.Not all the coon crosses will work however.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 1256

have had a few of all of the above i thought were bear dogs

-i dont keep different types of dogs for different jobs altho i usually only have 1 at a time id consider my start dog - or best rig dog-- they all are in training for that job


always have one i consider my lead dog- ( toughest , fastest , whatever )

thats the one you always put the tracker on first when you have lost them for awhile -

so ok maybe i do have different dogs for different jobs

thats not what i have in mind when i breed or buy a pup --

when something happens to number 1 you miss him for awhile --if you have been breeding and training them all for that job ,its not long for number 2 to fill his spot - if you been letting him carry all the weight ,for a bunch of pack dogs you are almost starting over , may take years to replace him if you dont have some real deep pockets

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Registered: Jun 2004
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Posts: 24

i agree with everything stated above, we started primarily coon hunting several several years ago ( pleasure). then took to bear hunting more seriously till it is primary and coon secondary. our method of dogs was brains, ability, and go power. primary mistake we have made is keeping to many males around and not females. i agree with pete everyone has a go to dog for rigging starting track, fast dog in pack, endurance so on and so on. the one thing i recomend so that you can tell what you got sometimes leaving best strike dog at home or useing different start dog or leaving that one speed demon in the truck. i dont hunt for a living i work so i can hunt so my pack doesnt make me money so my philosophy isnt good for everyone.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1344

My big game dogs are at least 5th generation big game dogs. I am going back farther to see how far back they have been used for big game. For 4 generations one side has been bred and born in good ol Oregon.. One side from California. They have a lot of brains, good nose, locating ability and accuracy. I really don't think we could ask for more. None of them are perfect but I am not going to complain about the either. They make me happy.

We have a few "coondog" bred dogs. Right from GRNITECH parents. So far one has turned out better then we hoped and one will have her first cat season this year. I hope that if they turn out they will cross well with our dogs. So far the only thing I am not sure about with the younger one is nose.. and I will be able to tell you by Feb 1st.

We prefer to run walkers, and a bluetick or two and are not above crossing the two if they are top notch dogs. I am not so wrapped up in bloodlines that I miss a good dog staring me in the face. Anything to keep me with game catching dogs. So yeah I sure the heck will hunt a crossbred dog.

We aren't allowed to run deer with dogs and coyote hunting is not that big around here (just don't tell fish and game that ) I don't see a whole lot of running dogs around here, every once in a while you see a cross being used.

quote:

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always have one i consider my lead dog- ( toughest , fastest , whatever )

thats the one you always put the tracker on first when you have lost them for awhile -

so ok maybe i do have different dogs for different jobs

thats not what i have in mind when i breed or buy a pup --

when something happens to number 1 you miss him for awhile --if you have been breeding and training them all for that job ,its not long for number 2 to fill his spot - if you been letting him carry all the weight ,for a bunch of pack dogs you are almost starting over , may take years to replace him if you dont have some real deep pockets

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OutWest Big Game Hounds

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Last edited by Melanie H. on 08-08-2007 at 06:46 PM

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: North of Panama City Florida
Posts: 1014

i wish FWC would open a season on bear, if heard thats a real rush. we dont have many bobcat at all but do have a season on them- although i havnt heard of anyone hunting them around here. mostly coon here but i do run deer dogs- alot of people have trail dogs and runnin dogs. right now i have a main track dog, and a female that will track but should pack with him. i know in feild trials foxhounds wont make it if they cant run all day long- do the long bred game hounds stamina last that long? do you usually have a problem with off game like some breeds/bloodlines of coondogs?

(((feel free to post pics of your dogs doin what you bred em to do- i love to see em)))

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- In Loving Memory of -
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did you want to argue over what was better lol --


dogs that are from generations of bear dogs-- probably are most likely to make bear dogs-- they been selected for generations for it--


sometimes big game hounds havent had a lot of competition- they are playing in a pretty small pond -- they arent known very far --they are famous for a few miles around -- but dont let that fool ya --

cause they been tested pretty hard


best chance to get a balanced big game hound from dogs that are from generations of the same -- not all of them will make it - lol


i have seen lots of times that coondogs would play the game right beside them

go back a few generations - same breeding anyway --

ive seen times that crossing with "famous" coondog stuff actually improved big game lines -

whats it take for a competition dog to win ?

sometimes its just a little extra desire , maybe he didnt win by gimmicks but just had a little sometin extra

maybe hes playin in a bigger pond - had to do it over a wider area than the big game hound- and he maybe faced more competition to get" famous"


not all of em make it lol - first time he finds out bear scratch and bite-- he may decide he doesnt want to play anymore--

but thats true of any dogs

running dog crosses can really get the job done ive had a few were great dogs-
i like them alot --
they can run, and if you have a lot of real speedy type bear, they can up the odds -they can be a real shortcut to put some speed into your pack ,
running dogs eat less- live longer- quieter in kennel , they recover quicker from those real long runs - better homing instinct , sounds like im trying to sell u some lol -- im not -- we need to breed the very best tree dogs-- so we dont have to hunt running dogs --lol
--20 years ago foxhound magazine full of pups 50$ - buy a decent dog for 300$
kind of a dieing sport -- ive bought a 300 $ coyote hound that if he was straight on bear (or coon or cat ) might have been worth 3000 $
i think those cheap prices meant they were sorted out pretty hard -

ive seen a few running dogs that would tree and cold trail-- who knows what breeding they really were - i think they musta had some tree dog in them -- i wouldnt mind a whole pack of them-


keep them crazy pen dogs away from me -lol -

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Registered: Jun 2003
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PR Kettle Lick Ridge Bear.(9 mo old)On dams side 5 generations of local brear bred stock


PR Kettle Lick Ridge Brutis.(16 mo old)On sires side 5 generations of local bear breed stock


the other side of these 2 dogs pedigree is Rooster.As of now the Rooster blood is crossing well into this line with good results.

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PR Saddle Mt Speck (8 yrs old) Just about a total 3 generation pedigree of all bear dogs.I personally hunted with most of them.

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Registered: Jun 2004
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alright sam that is the straw that broke the camels back i just happen to have a couple of empty kennels down here was wanting to find a couple walker gyps to put in them but i have been threatning to put an englilsh in there you wouldnt know where there is a started dog out of your all stock at would ya

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: New Hampshire
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Awesome reply. Some people would think you've been doing this for awhile & have seen all kinds of hounds! wd

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1344

Yes big game dogs have to have a lot of endurance. My dog have actually amazed me this year a couple of times of where I turned loose to where I picked them up under the tree. Once they get back to the truck they realize just how dang tired they are LOL.

As for trashing... My big game bred dogs all had to be trashed broke. I was suprised when I first got on this board and seen some of the coon hunters having such fits over trash running dogs... Heck when we were learning about hounds it was not a huge deal. You had a deer running dog you gave it a couple of tri-tronics lessons and got on with your hunting. Now where I live most of the dogs are all related, so maybe it is the line.. heck if I know.. They can be broke, so oh well...

My most favorite houndsmen quote came from our mentor about deer running dogs.. " I don't worry about the dogs who run deer. They can be broke. What you don't want is dogs who run deer and do a bad job of it"

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OutWest Big Game Hounds

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quote:

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Originally posted by bearcoons
alright sam that is the straw that broke the camels back i just happen to have a couple of empty kennels down here was wanting to find a couple walker gyps to put in them but i have been threatning to put an englilsh in there you wouldnt know where there is a started dog out of your all stock at would ya

---

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lady cathunter that statement was made to me by my uncle many years ago just not exactly like that. its amazing how true that really is.

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quote:

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Originally posted by bearcoons
lady cathunter that statement was made to me by my uncle many years ago just not exactly like that. its amazing how true that really is.

---

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~Melanie Hampton~
OutWest Big Game Hounds

You've only got 3 choices in life, give in, give up, or give it all you got.

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13

cameron blueticks are by far the most high strung, hard hunting.stay treed big game hounds i've seen

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Registered: Jan 2004
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Amanda it's mostly western cat hunters that put running dogs (read fox hounds) in their packs or cross the blood into their packs. as I understand it, the treedogs have just as good stamina but the running dogs have more speed and an extra gear. toward the end of a race they take over & put the pressure on while the treedogs just try to keep up. this "mixed" pack is mostly used where guys need to put a lot of cats up a tree, like gov't hunters, guides & folks who depend on the high dollar bobs.

keep in mind the real oldtimers ran really mixed packs. Ben Lilly had airedales & bird dogs in his pack w/ the hounds (including some trigg hounds) because he was trying to catch & kill everything he started.

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Tonasket,Washington
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We run a line of walker dogs that started out from all "coondog" blood,but with some tweaking is now turning out a very high percentage of "bear and lion dogs".We do alot of work for the game dept. and demand alot from our dogs.I tried the running dog blood years ago and gave them up because it was so hard to get one thats trees.Granted when ya get one that trees they can really do a good job of it.Then I went to plotts and still have a soft spot for them.But,I found with them,at the time the percentage of good dogs was too low for me.Meaning there was one AWESOME one for ten CULLS.Then we drifted into the walkers and well here we are.We had grade dogs for years but I got tired of if I found a good dog and wanted to cross some of that blood in nobody could ever remember what they went back to,and I don't breed to an indvidual but a line(ups those percentages) so know everything is registered and has been for years.

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Not trying to start an arguement on what is better, but Plotts are the only true big game bread dogs. The other hounds were adapted from coonhounds. This is not bad and the other breeds are catching game but they were not origanally intended for big game. For the most part though I see that people use the dogs that catch them game.

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plotts are the only true big game bred dogs!!


Do not agree at all with that statement

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That is fair, but do you have an example of another dog that fits in this forum developed strictly for big game?

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Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:

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Originally posted by M.R.
That is fair, but do you have an example of another dog that fits in this forum developed strictly for big game?

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point NC
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although the fox was the primary game of the british houndsman they were also used hunt wolf, various wildcats, boar & stag (european elk). the continental houndsman also used their hounds on on wolf, boar, various wildcats including lynx, stag & (oh wow) european brown bear (they don't tree).
the curs the brits brought over had been used on cat, boar & stag as well.
the ancestor of the german pointing breeds were hunted like curs on all the aforementioned game as well.
so in reality ALL the american hound & cur breeds trace back to big game hunters.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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thats a good answer pops - it wont change a plott mans mind- lol

ill give them this

- plotts were bred for big game more than they were for coon in this country - --
they are more popular among big game hunters than they are coonhunters .


from the dogs ive seen id have to say" true big game hounds" are rare in every breed-


being from foxhounds doesnt bother me - a foxhound can run a track - lol

used to irritate me when a plottman told me i need a plott to tree bear-

- its the same as telling somebody they need a walker to tree a coon--

-
things are taken wrong in print sometimes- i have a lot of respect for some plottmen-- a plott guy showed me my first bear in a tree --
they all tell me i need plotts to hunt bear and ive hunted a few but i swear that those good plotts are just allergic to me--lol
i have to admit that once i got my hands on a decent walker i never gave plotts much of a chance to convince me--

i love to tell plott guys they need a walker just like they love to tell me i need a plott- --lol



to a real plott guy--

its not a breed --

its a cult --


i guess im just in the walker cult -- lol

ive sure seen plenty of sorry walkers too-

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: kellogg mn
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M.R. don't suppose you're old enough to remember the Lee Bros.?

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