Registered: May 2010
Location: La Mirada, Ca
Posts: 24

Got a Big Question for anyone to answer !

I am not asking this to start any problems but I have always liked the english line and was wanting to make an english addition to my pack.

My problem is that I hunt bobcats about 99.9% of the time with an occasional bear every year or two. I run walkers & walker/running dog crosses and I am looking for anyone who has any knowledge of an english line that has the speed and endurance to stay up with my line of dogs.

Let me further add that I have a very good buddy who has a lightfoot that is absolutely fantastic except he is the last one into the tree on most occasions.

So does anyone know or have a line of english with speed and endurance ?

Thanks for your Help

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Alberta
Posts: 435

In my pack my females are a little faster than my males cause they are a little smaller and lighter. They still have the grit to get it done on bad bears too. The lightfoot dogs work well for me
Brian

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Lightfoot English
Bad ass hounds for bad ass game!
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Registered: May 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 407

quote:

---

Originally posted by Justaguy
Got a Big Question for anyone to answer !

I am not asking this to start any problems but I have always liked the english line and was wanting to make an english addition to my pack.

My problem is that I hunt bobcats about 99.9% of the time with an occasional bear every year or two. I run walkers & walker/running dog crosses and I am looking for anyone who has any knowledge of an english line that has the speed and endurance to stay up with my line of dogs.

Let me further add that I have a very good buddy who has a lightfoot that is absolutely fantastic except he is the last one into the tree on most occasions.

So does anyone know or have a line of english with speed and endurance ?

Thanks for your Help

---

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Melson's Big Game kennels. home to some decent English dogs ,one leopard and 2 red dogs who are nice dogs to . We hunt bear and coon also a few bobcats and a few grey fox . I am not color blind.

Great hound hunters of the past quotes I like and live buy .
"Its not the legnth off the ears it whats betwen the ears "- lester Nance
" "If you did not see it in the tree it did not happen" -Herb kennedy
" I live to hunt and I hunt to live " - Henry McIntyre

Last edited by Joes reticks on 06-28-2012 at 06:30 PM

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 407

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...threadid=491979

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Adam Evans
Brushy Ridge English Hounds
Light Foot English

304-257-6079

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/teambrushyridge/
brushyridgehounds.webs.com

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 800

Troy Collinsworth from Livermore, CA has some nice Registered English hounds. He uses them on Coon, Bear and is on the CA Lion study. He is having a litter next year that I am getting a pup off myself. He mostly has a line that he's been locally breeding and hunting since he was 18 years old. He also has some Oney blood. His dogs are super athletic and leggy. Not the " big houndy" English.

I have Reg Walkers, but I had a nice Reg English that was triple Swampr Rooster bred, I loved him, but he was also slow if I compared him to my pack.

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Cassandra Davis
UKC Bench Show Judge & Master of Hounds

REDWOOD'S TREEING WALKER COONHOUNDS
& LOUISIANA CATAHOULA LEOPARD DOGS
http://www.RedwoodCoonhounds.net/

NITECH CGRCH FCH GRCH 'PR' Redwood's All Night Aspen
(2014 #1 UKC Top Ten All-Breed Conformation Treeing Walker)
NITECH CCH GRFCH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' Redwood's Wild Gamble

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Roosevelt, Utah
Posts: 586

quote:

---

Originally posted by Justaguy
Got a Big Question for anyone to answer !

So does anyone know or have a line of english with speed and endurance ?

Thanks for your Help

---

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Living the Dream, making it happen and taking photos to share with others along the way!

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Western, NC
Posts: 317

Ever tried plott? Mine are super fast with plenty of endurance and tough pads with plenty of grit. Jmo

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Roosevelt, Utah
Posts: 586

Funny I never tied speed to any particular bloodline and I'm sure there are fast dogs in every breed. That old blue dog of mine had two speeds, a trail speed which was as fast as he could move the track and then that overdrive speed he used on a jumped bear. In my opinion, dogs that jumped a bear and learned to pick their head up and run full out seldom if ever get out run by a bear. On the other hand, dogs that stopped to fart only catch the ones that run and hide or tree on their own. I don't remember very many times when this dog had a bear jumped that it didn't tree, didn't matter whether he was alone, had help, had a running bear or a fighting bear. And I never once in the eleven or more years I hunted him ever saw a dog run around him on a jumped bear chase, didn't matter what color they were..............so I take offense to the slow comments about English dogs and I'll try really hard not to take a slap back at the walkers and plot dogs.......

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Last edited by RunninBear(Ike) on 07-29-2012 at 04:07 AM

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Toxaway NC
Posts: 126

good picture makes you want to grab the dogs and go to the woods

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Dean Woods
828-200-0069
Go yunder walkers

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Registered: May 2010
Location: La Mirada, Ca
Posts: 24

Runninbear;

You know if you took the time and read the post I was not picking, as you say, on the english!

If you had taken the time to think through the post you would see that I am looking for a Big Game English to add to my pack but I did not wish to take years tracking down a pup or dog.

Lastly I can not see what changed your mind from your response of 6/29/12 where you state that your English colored dogs have reb bone and walker in them. I have a problem figuring out the difference between my walker cross dogs and your english cross dogs?


With statements like that from you I do not believe I have to defend my post where I am looking to make my pack a little better!

Justaguy...

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Roosevelt, Utah
Posts: 586

Sure does doesn't it Wildhorse? I grabbed seven hounds just his morning and headed to the woods, and plan on going again tomorrow and Tuesday. Something about listening to a pack of hounds go off on a bear rig that stirs the soul..........

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Roosevelt, Utah
Posts: 586

Justaguy,

Maybe if you read my post again you might figure out that my comment wasn't directed at you.............

And you're correct in saying my dogs are crossbred hounds, most with redbone and a few with a little walker. And I wouldn't trade a single one of them for the most papered up, decorated walker, english or plot dog in the country!

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Last edited by RunninBear(Ike) on 07-29-2012 at 10:14 PM

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Ok I am probably gona get both of ur back hair raised up, along with every other big game hunter.

I personally won't feed any cross bred hound, kinda like building a truck/car without a title, not that I am into titleing a hound by any means. But for me pure bred or no feed.

I am happy to see the both left out ol blue which in mpo is the greatest big game hound of all breeds. Yes they tend to slack on the speed but like IKE speed inn't evry thing, got ot have a hound with heart and runs a track like I would a run a hot woman....to catch!

Don't get me wrong fellea's one of the best bear hounds I ahve ever seen was a walker plott crooss and was pushing the 90 lb mark, was he fast hell no, was he smart hell yes, was he better than those souped up cross breed trig, walker, plott hounds tiping the scales at 309-40 lbs.. 10 flold.

He knew his job, he did it with every breath he took, drif, short cut what ever it took to pull hair and get treed. He always found a bear.....so he was a bit independant as well. Bottom line he had HEART, GRTIT, and DESIRE. Do I have better than that dog....probably not, as good, you bet ya.

Don't get me wrong LOVE the english breed, not as much as blue dogs, LOVEED the redticks and have had several in the day, just got true on blue.

There are several WV guys that have some outstanding redticks, with great bloodlines. These guys like myself and IKE we didn't fall for the "speed" obession, jsut true dogs that get it done.

Ike hope you don't take offence to my comments about mixed up hounds, what ever works to get it done. I have had red dogs in the day along with black n tans, redticks, leporad curs.....NO walkers.

For me it's got to be blue, if that ever changes, got to be pure redtick or blue english yea, gotta have them ticks in the WV VA mts blue or red. If I were to be looking for a red tick look to WV or VA for the most part these guys are straight up hard core hunters, and if you ain't a bear hunter here in teh hollows you aint sh!t ! We breath it, live it, and crave it, bring your own pickel jar and snuff, and keep in mind always keep one foot on the upper side of the hill, never know when the ticked up dog is gona limb his AZZ, bet ya I see him first!

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Kardinal Kennels


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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Western, NC
Posts: 317

I have 2 plott/walker littermates! Male 65lb female 55lb. Faster dogs from my area once in lifetime kinda dogs not blowing smoke would put them against any dog. Papers dont tree game. I love blueticks and owned blue ticks but these are amazing speed heart mouth tree! Look like plotts but are wonderful dogs to walk behind in woods. Not even 2 yr old yet abd are better than most old dogs ive ever been with. Cold nosed rig trail we free cast them and run and tree bear. They have amazing amount of drive hunt till they find it and have no quit in them. Smart looks abilty just dont happen oftenbin a package deal but i lucked up! Im a true blue on coon!

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 407

quote:

---

Originally posted by kardinalkennels
Ok I am probably gona get both of ur back hair raised up, along with every other big game hunter.

I personally won't feed any cross bred hound, kinda like building a truck/car without a title, not that I am into titleing a hound by any means. But for me pure bred or no feed.

I am happy to see the both left out ol blue which in mpo is the greatest big game hound of all breeds. Yes they tend to slack on the speed but like IKE speed inn't evry thing, got ot have a hound with heart and runs a track like I would a run a hot woman....to catch!

Don't get me wrong fellea's one of the best bear hounds I ahve ever seen was a walker plott crooss and was pushing the 90 lb mark, was he fast hell no, was he smart hell yes, was he better than those souped up cross breed trig, walker, plott hounds tiping the scales at 309-40 lbs.. 10 flold.

He knew his job, he did it with every breath he took, drif, short cut what ever it took to pull hair and get treed. He always found a bear.....so he was a bit independant as well. Bottom line he had HEART, GRTIT, and DESIRE. Do I have better than that dog....probably not, as good, you bet ya.

Don't get me wrong LOVE the english breed, not as much as blue dogs, LOVEED the redticks and have had several in the day, just got true on blue.

There are several WV guys that have some outstanding redticks, with great bloodlines. These guys like myself and IKE we didn't fall for the "speed" obession, jsut true dogs that get it done.

Ike hope you don't take offence to my comments about mixed up hounds, what ever works to get it done. I have had red dogs in the day along with black n tans, redticks, leporad curs.....NO walkers.

For me it's got to be blue, if that ever changes, got to be pure redtick or blue english yea, gotta have them ticks in the WV VA mts blue or red. If I were to be looking for a red tick look to WV or VA for the most part these guys are straight up hard core hunters, and if you ain't a bear hunter here in teh hollows you aint sh!t ! We breath it, live it, and crave it, bring your own pickel jar and snuff, and keep in mind always keep one foot on the upper side of the hill, never know when the ticked up dog is gona limb his AZZ, bet ya I see him first!

---

Thanks for the kind words about us WV and VA english guys, you hit the nail on the head!!! I started off with blue dogs, and migrated to english dogs, but blue dogs will always either be in my pack and always in my heart. Maybe thats why I keep so many blue english dogs?

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Adam Evans
Brushy Ridge English Hounds
Light Foot English

304-257-6079

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/teambrushyridge/
brushyridgehounds.webs.com

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Roosevelt, Utah
Posts: 586

I'm not gonna get into breed basing contest with you guys and I'm glad you believe papers mean something, cause I don't! Most of the guys I know just care about a dog that gets it done, and if those papered hounds get it done for you guys, and if you like that blue color then more power to you. Personally I believe paper is something that works great to start a fire, that is if you're broken down in the cold and dark is coming on..........

Funny how a person breeds to color, size and conformation and they then think what they have is best! How does a breeder know that the off colored dog he culled wasn't the best pup in the litter? Breeding for papers doesn't impress me, and I have a papered dog in my backyard that I never sent the papers in on. Likewise I have a state record bear that was scored for Boone & Crockett and the papers are still laying here on my desk. I suppose that's why I stay to myself and never did care to get around other houndoggers: everything always has to be about the blow, I done this and I done that, my dog is this color and your's ain't no good cause it's that color, mine has papers and yours don't.

It's funny cause I'll bet none of the bears, lions or bobcats I've killed over the years ever knew whether my dogs had papers or not...................

Ike
http://www.ingramwildlife.com/picture.htm

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Last edited by RunninBear(Ike) on 07-31-2012 at 07:37 PM

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Roosevelt, Utah
Posts: 586

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates

It would be hard for most college graduates to look down on Bill Gates for dropping out of Harvard, guess not having the papers didn't stop him!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_jobs

It looks like Steve Jobs dropped out of Reed College, he also didn't have the papers but he didn't let it stop him from creating the an empire, one of the largest in the world.....

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 407

Im not getting into one of those contests either, Ive saw good and bad in all breeds of hounds and I have hunted with just about every breed. I have papers on most of my dogs but some I dont, But it is very nice to have a registry like UKC which is dedicated to preserving your bloodline on paper for your reference in the future, especially if you are developing dogs for yourself. Ive never had to cross breed to get traits into my dogs that mine did not posess already, just find top of the line dogs to outcross too that suited me which is a task all in itself. I know anyone can write down a dogs name on a piece of notebook paper or remember ole so and so was bred to so and so back in... the day. I keep records regardless, but the old addage goes with alot of old timers ''paper doesnt tree game'' which is true. But when you sale a pup to someone with 10, 20, 30 years of your hard work behind it. They want something more than your word that it was all your hard work, more than pictures, more than your word, alot of people like to see all the dogs behind the pup or hound they just purchased from you. Ukc keeps track of that. There are too many behind the barn breeders these days, that you gotta cover your rear and wear rubber boots around and a man's word isnt his word anymore sadly enough. With that being said one of my best hounds is a cross bred hound, with most of his litter made very nice hounds. Some people just choose to do things there way and that what makes us all unique and different. I love my tick dogs and I havent hunted with anything to make me change my mind and if they carry a set of 20 dollar papers with them, oh well. Because I know years down the road when I sale a great grand-pup to that dog, my integrity, my breeding, my hard work, dedication to my dogs, and so on will be documented on that ''cheap piece of paper'' for generations to come. I mean you wouldnt go buy a piece of land with out a deed right? Or a vehicle without a title? Happy Hunting. Adam

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Adam Evans
Brushy Ridge English Hounds
Light Foot English

304-257-6079

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/teambrushyridge/
brushyridgehounds.webs.com

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Roosevelt, Utah
Posts: 586

Too many of the guys I know wouldn't pay the fee to register a hound, one guy even told me he had to water down most of the papered dogs he's ever raised because they were too dumb to run a track......now that's him talking and not me. But I do know that he and another buddy bought two papered up redticks from southern Utah and both of those dogs were culls, but rather than cull them they traded and sold them off to somebody that would hunt them. I have never had a cross bred pup out of my hounds that didn't go, trail, locate, hunt and fire like a hound is suppose to do. But I watched those two redticks trail to a caged coon one day (on the ground), then turn around and trail back to me............

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quote:

---

Originally posted by dsodshounds
I know years down the road when I sale a great grand-pup to that dog, my integrity, my breeding, my hard work, dedication to my dogs, and so on will be documented on that ''cheap piece of paper'' for generations to come.

---

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Rocklynn Phillips
Kardinal Kennels


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Registered: May 2010
Location: La Mirada, Ca
Posts: 24

Guys,

I hunt the dogs that do the best for me and my area. I do not care if they have papers or have come from years of breeding best to best. I have seen good, great dogs from both camps so I will leave that arguement to you guys with far more knowledge than I !

Most of the dogs I have today came from friends that hunt in the northwest and their thinking about speed started with the repopulation of wolves. The thought was that if the dogs were a little faster and got the game treed then you would
have less chance to loseing a dog or dogs to the wolves. It's an idea or possible solution to that problem which is only going to get worse as the wolves spread out. They have traveled all the way to the west coast Washington, Oregon and into northern California under the protection of the federal government.

So to my way of thinking at the present time, between the wolves, protedted by the government and the anti's such as HSUS who want to stop all hunting of any kind hound hunting days may soon be a thing of the past if hunters of all kinds do not standup and say something now !

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location:
Posts: 583

Heck I thought you were just looking for a nice english hound.

I understand your first coment a little but you have to understand were I stand about papers as a breeder.

I totally agree with your last comments as well.

The stuff in the middle not so sure about. I am no Wolf expert nor have even seen one in the wild, if I did and was packing I would let the air out of it if possible, regardless of the law.

I have been in your area and areas that point north, south and east to Colorado. I wasn't dog hunting but spent plenty of time in many sourrounding states. If I hunted were wolfs were it woud be of my thinking that you would want a larger breed dog with alot of grit and aggression...Thats just my thinking and it my be incorrect, but if I had that problem "wolves" I would more than likely hunt 90 plus pound dogs that stayed packed up good and worked well together. I may even venture out to say I may even consider mixing pitbulls with something to just hunt wolves. The airdele breed comes to mind as well, but for the most part I think all the hunt has been bred out of them, I am sure there are still a few guys that are breeding them right, but they are not as popular as they once were?

I don't understand why there were reintroduced and probably never will but I am jsut an ignorant hillbilly that dosn't get out much anymore unless it is to bear hunt. I love hunting with hounds surely hope I am dead and gone when and if they outlaw it, which may not be that far off, who knows what tommarow will bring expecially if we get another 4 yrs of our current commander and cheif. One thing for sure if I am still alive when it comes to an end I will still continue to bred blue dogs exactly as I am now.

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Rocklynn Phillips
Kardinal Kennels


Pups and started dogs available from time to time.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Roosevelt, Utah
Posts: 586

Rather than worrying about speed maybe you should look at finding and hunting a group of tight-mouthed dogs. Most all of my dogs make alot of noise on track, but I had a dog once that never made a sound until she jumped the game, then barked herself hoarse in a short time. Then she'd sit under the tree with her head up waiting for the lion or bear to come down, silent with her teeth at the ready. I remember one bear she had up, treeing switch going off solid, but when I got to the tree I could not hear her tree bark. When she saw me coming she starting treeing again and was saving her voice for the bear when it started down............

Just a thought!

http://www.ingramwildlife.com/about.htm

http://www.ingramwildlife.com/bear.htm

http://www.ingramwildlife.com/picture.htm

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 407

quote:

---

Originally posted by RunninBear(Ike)
Too many of the guys I know wouldn't pay the fee to register a hound, one guy even told me he had to water down most of the papered dogs he's ever raised because they were too dumb to run a track......now that's him talking and not me. But I do know that he and another buddy bought two papered up redticks from southern Utah and both of those dogs were culls, but rather than cull them they traded and sold them off to somebody that would hunt them. I have never had a cross bred pup out of my hounds that didn't go, trail, locate, hunt and fire like a hound is suppose to do. But I watched those two redticks trail to a caged coon one day (on the ground), then turn around and trail back to me............

---

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Adam Evans
Brushy Ridge English Hounds
Light Foot English

304-257-6079

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/teambrushyridge/
brushyridgehounds.webs.com

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 407

quote:

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Originally posted by kardinalkennels
X2!

Think we are on the same page about alot of things. I don't breed for color, only ability, got a white bluetick female that isn't 2yrs yet and she is very special.

Just seen your link, brought up alot of old memorys of some nice hounds I use to have or hunt with as a kid, next time you have pups, let me know,

I'm gona put this jar up before I draw a tear and water it down, done went down memory lane to far. I mean heck wth that white bitch and all these dark blues around here, I think I would like to have one of yours in the mix. I love what I got but I also loved what I had and your breedings go back to the some of the same hounds I hunted, gona dig those papers up now and take a peep into the past.

---

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Adam Evans
Brushy Ridge English Hounds
Light Foot English

304-257-6079

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/teambrushyridge/
brushyridgehounds.webs.com

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