Registered: Aug 2009
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Posts: 3981

Should Squalling at the tree be listed in the rules under "Dogs will be scratched" ? I.e. If a handler squalls when other dogs are out running in the first 7 minutes of shine time on a tree that is closed and being shinned.

I understand that right now squalling at the tree is a scratchable offense under 17. General Rules where it says, "No squalling nor any action deemed to be interfering with dogs to be done during the first 7 minutes of shine time unless all dogs declared and struck and treed are leased". (And it has to be done on the spot)

Now, this rule is sort of a grey area in the rules and I believe the rule needs to have clarity in the honor rules.

To be be honest I really don't have a problem allowing squalling durning shine time, but I have got it at both ends and there seems to be an inconsistency with the rule.

So my question is,

1. Should Squalling be a scratchable offense

2. And if it is should it not be listed in the rules under "Dogs will be scratched"

My intent on this discussion is not to create hard feelings but to possibly have UKC make an amendment to the present rule book to help bring clarity.

My personal opinion is whatever the rule is it should be enforced. Love to hear yours.

I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "laws are only good if they are enforced"

Thanks John Dell

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9225

John, squalling during a situation when the rules say you can't falls under what we call "an implied scratch". In other words, squalling during during the first seven minutes of shine time with a dog out on track results in the handlers dog being scratched.

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Registered: Aug 2009
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Is there anyway that this rule can be brought up to the rules commitee to be changed or placed in a different category? Ie. "Dogs will be scratched" I just kind of feel the present rule is not very clear. Thank you John

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: jesup ga.
Posts: 250

While the subject is on squalling how do we handle slick handlers who squall excessively on a obvious slick . All hounds and handlers deserve a fair shake . Doesnt happen alot but does happen . Is there anything the cast can do

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Registered: Apr 2004
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Posts: 474

John I got scratched on a hunt once we had three dogs treed and one dog trailing.We were shining the tree and for some dumb reason about two minutes into shineing i clapped my hands,a handler says you can't do that.No body said anything else we went on shineing about eight minutes went by and I found the coon we plused the tree got our three dogs walk about 75 yards stoped put the eight minutes on the dog that was trailing.The handler of the dog that the eight was running on and his spectator walk up alittle ways to listen for his dog about six minutes went by they come back by the rest of the cast.The handler says to the judge that I should be scratched for clapping my hands.Judge calls for a vote three to one to scratch me.I put a question on the card:My question wasn't could they scratch me for clapping but how can they do it after that amount of time went by?The eight minutes got the dog on strike we called time out went to the master of hounds.we told him the what happened and in the end he asked me if in deed i clapped my hands and I said yes!He said sorry your scratched!To answer your question it is a scratchible offense for squalling before seven minutes of shine time is up with a dog trailing!

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Registered: Aug 2009
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By the rules you could have been scratched but only at the tree and immediately after you clapped.

Once 8 minutes elasped and you walked away it was too late to scratch you and the MOH and the cast were both wrong. A offense has got to be voted on where the offense happens or in most cases it becomes invalid. Last year I was judging a cast where 2 dogs in the cast got in a fight at the tree and I scartched them both. When we got out to the road the two handlers decided that they were going to say that the dogs didnt fight. And they were trying to get out of taking the scratch on their dogs. I informed them that it was too late to have a vote 45 minutes after the infraction occured.

Kelly in your case you should have written a formal complaint and placed $20 for a pannel to look at. Even if the panel votes against you you can still proceed with a formal complaint to UKC.

Thanks John

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Registered: Apr 2004
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Posts: 474

John you are right I should have filled out a formal complaint!I don't like to cause problems,so I just scratch my head,smile and get ready for the next hunt!

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