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kayapellijed390
Banned

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1442

Cross breeding.

Is anybody else gonna mess around with crossbreeding since UKC will now register them and gives us a path back to full breed registration?

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Lonetree Kennels "Where dogs are made one tree at a time."
Home of-
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GRNITECH 'PR' DERBY CITY SANDY
GRNITECH GRCH CASH'S CAMO JUG OF SHINE
--2012 National Grand Nite Champion American Leopard Hound
--High Scoring Leopard 2012 Autumn Oaks
--High scoring Leopard Saturday night at Leopard days 2011
--Qualified for the 2011 UKC World Hunt.
--High Scoring Leopard of the 2011 UKC World Hunt
--Breed Winner for the 2011 Purina Race Hunt
--2011 South Dakota State Hunt Champion
CH RYLEIGH'S GRIM REAPER
--Tri-State Coonhunters Association 2010 Bench show dog of the year

And the Redbone--
2013 Tri-State Overall Bench Show Dog of the Year:
'PR' CH RAGGED RIDGE CJ (Willie) co-owned with Bob Julson

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Dan McDonough
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Superstition Mtns., AZ
Posts: 1166

...

Can you explain the process? I'd do it in a heartbeat. I wouldn't register anything that didn't improve the breed and really fit the bill but I've begun working on two crossbred lines of dogs and have been doing it for about six years. I have not "slipped one in" and I don't even have any of them here on my place but I have seen both of those lines through their paces and they are doing way, way better than the average leopard. There is another litter hitting the ground in about a month.

When it's legit and I have an exceptional example of that line, I can't wait to put it in. A couple of things have gone on since the UKC changed the category of the Leopards that have greatly held the breed back and it would be very nice to be able to spruce things up. Sure, there will be some guys that cut some competition style dogs in the mix but people don't have to buy their pups if they don't want...there's always that. I'm completely sick of seeing controls put on everything. The commies proved that doesn't work time and again. It's certainly time to go the other way. It's that or we can watch the Leopard board for a month or more just waiting for someone to post something while the some of the other hound boards can be refreshed every 20 mins. and have an entire new page of threads that are a lot more exciting than the scant few conversations that go on here.

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Old Post 09-02-2014 10:44 PM
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kayapellijed390
Banned

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1442

Copied this from the Black and Tan board

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Ray Conrad
UKC Forum Member
Registered: May 2008
Location: Rock Hill,SC
Posts: 465

X-BRED is coming Jan 1
Yes Gentleman, A X-bred category is to be implemented on January 1,2015. This was unveiled at the presidents meeting at Autumn Oaks. Basically the plan is to give the breeder the ability to register all his pups without having to fudge that they meet the breed standards. If you breed B&T to B&T and have 6 pups that meet standards they can be registered B&T but you have 2 pups that are off color they can go into the X-bred category. Realize that this X-bred category just deals with color and nothing else in the breed standards. Also this plan is to give the ability to actually cross breed your dog with one of the 7 established breeds of hounds and have the ability to register the pups as X-bred. It also provides and avenue back to being pure bred after a dog gets back to being at least 80% of the particular breed. For example, B&T to Walker= 50% B&T,Walker. Breed 50% B&T,Walker to B&T= 75% B&T,Walker. Breed 75% B&T,Walker to B&T= 87% B&T,Walker. This 87% B&T,Walker would be able to be registered as a full B&T as long as the ABTCHA has given permission for the registry to be open at that time. Single registration is gone and we were told to hold off with any for the rest of the year. The ABTCHA as well as all other UKC chartered breed organizations will be able to open or close said registry once a year in January. Now for dogs that are currently registered as B&T and don't meet breed standards as applied to color only, once UKC receives notification that a dog is in this category they will make a decision concerning the status of this dog. The dog can be moved to the X-Bred category on a case by case basis. Puppys registered prior to the status change would remain registered B&T. Puppys registered after status change would be registered X-Bred. All X-Bred dogs will be able to participate fully in UKC hunting events. They will not be able to participate in showing events as they are not a breed but a category of dogs. There are still many questions about this change and UKC has committed fully to listen and make changes and improvements as the program evolves. I believe this is at the very least a step in the right direction. It gives the purist the ability to keep his dogs as pure as possible but also give the breeder that wants to mix it up a little an avenue to do so. Also the breed organization has the power to allow or not allow these X-bred dogs into the registry by opening or closing the books. The debates about this dog or that dog meeting breed standards in the color category only can now be put to bed. I for sure don't know all the answers concerning the new program but I will be glad to pass along all questions or concerns that you may have to UKC.

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Lonetree Kennels "Where dogs are made one tree at a time."
Home of-
David and Jessica Smith 605-270-2674
GRNITECH 'PR' DERBY CITY SANDY
GRNITECH GRCH CASH'S CAMO JUG OF SHINE
--2012 National Grand Nite Champion American Leopard Hound
--High Scoring Leopard 2012 Autumn Oaks
--High scoring Leopard Saturday night at Leopard days 2011
--Qualified for the 2011 UKC World Hunt.
--High Scoring Leopard of the 2011 UKC World Hunt
--Breed Winner for the 2011 Purina Race Hunt
--2011 South Dakota State Hunt Champion
CH RYLEIGH'S GRIM REAPER
--Tri-State Coonhunters Association 2010 Bench show dog of the year

And the Redbone--
2013 Tri-State Overall Bench Show Dog of the Year:
'PR' CH RAGGED RIDGE CJ (Willie) co-owned with Bob Julson

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Old Post 09-03-2014 03:10 AM
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kayapellijed390
Banned

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1442

I am already started too.

Last year one of friends who owns a dandy male leopard out of Shine, that he uses on bobcat and coon, called to tell me that his male had accidently bred his Quad Grand Black and Tan female. His female is also a top notch, truck to tree, extremely cold nosed, bobcat and lion dog. I tried to do a little bobcat hunting with some of my Leps the past two years and found that while they could flat scream on a jumped or even few hour old track, when it got late in the day they just where not cold nosed enough. I told him right away that I wanted one. Two of my buddies around here also got one pup each. Those pups are now 8 months old and absolutely beautiful. Shortly after my buddy told me about his cross bred litter my old Grnitech walker female Sandy came into heat. Sandy is one of the last females alive that is directly off of Medley's Hardwood Swamp. Her last two litters had been very small. As a matter of fact when I bred her to Mr Clean I only got two puppies. I had decided to not waste any more money driving across the country and paying a stud fee. I have always said if I could combine Sandy and Shine that, that would be my perfect hound. About this time UKC began to post things on the message board along the lines of - it is not if, but when a cross bred category would be opened up. I decided this was probably my last chance to try this cross, so I decided to gamble and give it a try. I got four puppies from that cross and they are now about 5 months old.

The cross that really inspired me to give cross breeding a try was Shine's first litter which most of you know about. He accidentally bred a walker female I had at the time named Sis. That cross produced some truly phenomenal hounds on both big game and coon. Tyler Polzen owns a female from that cross named Katie, she was his first hound and he trained her himself from start to finish, and finish she did! I have hunted all over the country and have drawn some of the toughest dogs alive and I wouldn't be afraid to turn her loose in any company. She is an absolute COONDOG! Blistering fast track dog, deadly accurate, super loud, hard tree dog who will hold all kinds of pressure, as hard hunting a dog as I have ever seen, but she is as calm and quiet as can be at home, she never needs to be leashed and handles like a dream. She is absolutely a competition hunters dream, independent as they come and FAST! On the ground and on the wood. Tyler is very excited to be able to put her in the hunts next year. In my opinion the number of quality females in this breed is very low, and the nice ones cannot be bought! I just finally decided I was gonna breed what I wanted and hope UKC was serious about letting us hunt crossbreds, and if they didn't I figured I could just hunt PKC and wait and hope that single registration would eventually be opened up in the Leopard breed. I have to say UKC exceeded my wildest expectations when they unveiled the new X bred category. Way to go and thank you UKC!

__________________
Lonetree Kennels "Where dogs are made one tree at a time."
Home of-
David and Jessica Smith 605-270-2674
GRNITECH 'PR' DERBY CITY SANDY
GRNITECH GRCH CASH'S CAMO JUG OF SHINE
--2012 National Grand Nite Champion American Leopard Hound
--High Scoring Leopard 2012 Autumn Oaks
--High scoring Leopard Saturday night at Leopard days 2011
--Qualified for the 2011 UKC World Hunt.
--High Scoring Leopard of the 2011 UKC World Hunt
--Breed Winner for the 2011 Purina Race Hunt
--2011 South Dakota State Hunt Champion
CH RYLEIGH'S GRIM REAPER
--Tri-State Coonhunters Association 2010 Bench show dog of the year

And the Redbone--
2013 Tri-State Overall Bench Show Dog of the Year:
'PR' CH RAGGED RIDGE CJ (Willie) co-owned with Bob Julson

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Zach danberry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2010
Location:
Posts: 146

I don't have any plans to do anything myself right now but if there is a dog that I think might help me to tree more coons you can be sure I'll be thinking about taking advantage of this.

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JohnCox
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2009
Location: Fletcher, Ok
Posts: 1510

I was at the meeting, and what UKC is doing with the X Bred dogs is a win win!!!!!!!! Due to several reasons and letting the BREED ASSOCIATIONS be the ones who vote to open or close the books is a good thing. I would be glad to talk to anyone about this deal if you would like to contact me and I will be at the Leopard World hunt with a copy of the slide presentation and we can go over it slide by slide if anyone would like to.

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crazycoonbuster
New UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2014
Location:
Posts: 2

relly? Commys

smoken
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2006
Location: hoyleton, IL
Posts: 308

I am not against single registration but I am perfectly fine with the gene pool we have now also.The leopards I am hunting suit me fine.I am curious though of how many on here that are in favor of it have already made crosses they intend to try to get in.


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Dan McDonough
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Northeastern Wisconsin
Posts: 961
...
I don't have any crosses.


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507-261-9121 (C)
jagdlep@yahoo.com
N.E. WI.
Northern Kennel & Supply
American Leopard Hounds
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Dan McDonough
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Superstition Mtns., AZ
Posts: 1166

...

As I stated above, I don't have any of these in my yard but I'll do you a favor and bring one over here so you can tell all of your friends your not a fool.

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Dan McDonough
507-261-9121 (C)
jagdlep@yahoo.com
Superstition Mtns., AZ
American Leopard Hounds
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Old Post 09-05-2014 03:11 AM
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curs12
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 574

I can't find much info on this, so how is it gonna work, i'm assuming you breed what you like and reg it as a crossbred ? or do they single reg them ?

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kayapellijed390
Banned

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1442

Single registration is gone. You can register any dog as xbred as long as it has hound characteristics.

__________________
Lonetree Kennels "Where dogs are made one tree at a time."
Home of-
David and Jessica Smith 605-270-2674
GRNITECH 'PR' DERBY CITY SANDY
GRNITECH GRCH CASH'S CAMO JUG OF SHINE
--2012 National Grand Nite Champion American Leopard Hound
--High Scoring Leopard 2012 Autumn Oaks
--High scoring Leopard Saturday night at Leopard days 2011
--Qualified for the 2011 UKC World Hunt.
--High Scoring Leopard of the 2011 UKC World Hunt
--Breed Winner for the 2011 Purina Race Hunt
--2011 South Dakota State Hunt Champion
CH RYLEIGH'S GRIM REAPER
--Tri-State Coonhunters Association 2010 Bench show dog of the year

And the Redbone--
2013 Tri-State Overall Bench Show Dog of the Year:
'PR' CH RAGGED RIDGE CJ (Willie) co-owned with Bob Julson

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Old Post 09-05-2014 05:21 PM
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Doug A
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Kilkenny, MN
Posts: 893

I dont hunt leopards or own one but Iwould like to ask a few questions about them without causing a fight in hopes of not having to learn something the hard way.
Everyone in the coonhunting world knows Camo Jug was a crossbred. What were the Leopards like before him? How did he advance your breed? Are there still leopards out there without any Jug breeding? If so, how do they rate? It seems as if you guys have gone through all this already. Several of you are apparently not satisfied and want to do it again. If a guy has a heavy Jug bred dog and crosses it on a Walker, isnt it percentage wise more like a walker than a leopard? I'll delete this message if it causes problems. Thanks.

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Old Post 09-05-2014 09:34 PM
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JohnCox
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2009
Location: Fletcher, Ok
Posts: 1510

Doug, that is a loaded question, and I'm sure you knew that when you asked it. But it all depends on what you or anyone else wants in a coondog. As for Jug being a cross breed yes he was and thats a fact. Are they in all breeds yes they are and thats a fact to. Next question what were the leopards like before him well to be honest alot of them are still like they were back then and with the effort of quite a few folks those lines will stay that way. The leopard hound as they're called today are still leopard Curs for the most part. The Leopard Curs have always had a splash of hound in them as well as some other influence's and now the tables are turning in some ways as in now your seeing more Leopard Hounds with a splash of cur in them if that makes sence to you. Are there lines out there without Jug in them sure there are in fact quite a few to be honest. Now here's the kicker how do the non Jug lines rate against the Jug bred lines well thats the question that only the guy hunting them can answer and it all goes back to what someone like or dislikes. And as for crossing a Heavy Jug bred dog on a walker wouldn't it be closer to being a walker. Thats a good one Lets do the math if you take a full blooded Walker and cross it on a Leopard would it be more walker then Leopard. You yourself said Jug was a crossbreed and we all know he had Walker in him but by now if you crossed a walker on some heavy breg Jug dog percentage wise would it be more walker then Leopard probably so. But it all will still be a roll of the dice to see how it all lines up if you know what I mean.
As for some folks not being satisfied I think whats driving that is some folks coming into the breed are looking for a different style of dog and they feel they need to go in that direction to get it. I don't see it that way at this time for me and notice I said for ME everyone sees a dog different and wants something different so thats what drives this train. For the folks who like the old style of Leopard they are very happy wth what they have. Some of the folks coming into the breed are still looking for that something extra and I truly think if they do their homework they will find its already in the breed they just have to find it but for the hard to plaese they will always continue to strive to get a better dog! I know I skirted some of the questions but I didn't wanna step on anyones toes.

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Doug A
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Kilkenny, MN
Posts: 893

Thanks John. I agree with every thing you've said. I hunt B&T's and we have crossbreds for sure. One named Hardrock most recently that still causes arguments whenever he is brought up. I don't really know where I sit on the registering crossbreed dogs issue. I just find it interesting that people want to breed two dogs of a different breed then arbitrarily will pick one of the breeds and want to register it as that. Leopard X Walker = ? Why Leopard? When if you have a Jug bred dog it is % wise more Walker. Same thing for the black dogs just use the name hard rock instead. I have no problem with that either. If someone likes it buy or breed to it. If not, steer clear. It's a free country right?
Kay... from South Dakota where are from? I'd like to come over some time and check your dogs out if that's ok. Very interesting times we are in.

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kayapellijed390
Banned

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1442

Maybe the leopard fixes what is wrong with the walkers.... Imagine a walker that never needs a leash and has coons in all of its trees....One that can burn a track not just tree....

I'd just rather look at a leopard dog then another souped up beagle.

I live about 45 minutes NW of Sioux Falls, you can come hunting anytime.

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Lonetree Kennels "Where dogs are made one tree at a time."
Home of-
David and Jessica Smith 605-270-2674
GRNITECH 'PR' DERBY CITY SANDY
GRNITECH GRCH CASH'S CAMO JUG OF SHINE
--2012 National Grand Nite Champion American Leopard Hound
--High Scoring Leopard 2012 Autumn Oaks
--High scoring Leopard Saturday night at Leopard days 2011
--Qualified for the 2011 UKC World Hunt.
--High Scoring Leopard of the 2011 UKC World Hunt
--Breed Winner for the 2011 Purina Race Hunt
--2011 South Dakota State Hunt Champion
CH RYLEIGH'S GRIM REAPER
--Tri-State Coonhunters Association 2010 Bench show dog of the year

And the Redbone--
2013 Tri-State Overall Bench Show Dog of the Year:
'PR' CH RAGGED RIDGE CJ (Willie) co-owned with Bob Julson

Last edited by kayapellijed390 on 09-06-2014 at 03:03 PM

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Jason Abbott
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Switzer,WV
Posts: 529

% wise Jug is more Leopard than Walker.He has one shot of Walker 3rd or 4 th generation back.Really far as registering the cross breeds as Leopards it really hasn't changed.They have to open the books up to do it and their not going to do that anytime soon in my opinion.

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crazycoonbuster
New UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2014
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Posts: 2

Dont nobody kneed a mix cur mongril in our walker dog. our walker hounds is just fine.

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Old Post 09-06-2014 07:42 PM
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kayapellijed390
Banned

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1442

Crazycoonbuster

Only ever made two posts, both aimed at stirring up trouble on this thread. Ain't never had nothing worth saying before but, now you wanna tell me what I should do with my breeding program. Get a life.

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Lonetree Kennels "Where dogs are made one tree at a time."
Home of-
David and Jessica Smith 605-270-2674
GRNITECH 'PR' DERBY CITY SANDY
GRNITECH GRCH CASH'S CAMO JUG OF SHINE
--2012 National Grand Nite Champion American Leopard Hound
--High Scoring Leopard 2012 Autumn Oaks
--High scoring Leopard Saturday night at Leopard days 2011
--Qualified for the 2011 UKC World Hunt.
--High Scoring Leopard of the 2011 UKC World Hunt
--Breed Winner for the 2011 Purina Race Hunt
--2011 South Dakota State Hunt Champion
CH RYLEIGH'S GRIM REAPER
--Tri-State Coonhunters Association 2010 Bench show dog of the year

And the Redbone--
2013 Tri-State Overall Bench Show Dog of the Year:
'PR' CH RAGGED RIDGE CJ (Willie) co-owned with Bob Julson

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Old Post 09-07-2014 12:28 AM
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Jason Abbott
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Switzer,WV
Posts: 529

Yell what they said!

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Scott W8
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Hilliard, FL
Posts: 61

Will they allow grown dogs to be registered as crossbreeds as well? The P.K.C. does this. I like it because it gives you a chance to competition hunt unregistered dogs. There are some fine crossbred and full blooded unregistered dogs that would be able to compete. I have a B & T that I believe is purebred but I have no papers for him. I like everything about this.

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evercry farms
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2011
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 115

Crazy

quote:
Originally posted by crazycoonbuster
Dont nobody kneed a mix cur mongril in our walker dog. our walker hounds is just fine.
Crazy, you are so right, and I don't want any of your go yonder hounds in my breed. If you think the Leopard dog needs improvement, why did you get one in the first place? I'll tell you why. Because if you'd try to bring Leopards into the Walkers (or any of the hound breeds) they would run you out of town. But we are small in numbers compared to the other breeds. So, if you get enough guy signed up as members you can vote this cross breeding crap in. That's why they are doing it in our breed and not yours. If you want cross breed dogs, go ahead and do it. Reg. them in the PKC, start winning hunts with them. If they start winning, comp. hunters will buy them. And then you can have you own breed of dogs.

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Old Post 09-15-2014 07:59 AM
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kayapellijed390
Banned

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1442

Mark...

Or I can just do it in UKC...... I ain't never had a problem with my Leopards going. They have just as big a motor in them as any walker already. I didn't have any reason to look elsewhere for more "motor." Claiming the leopard breed as a whole as "your" breed is incredibly pompous. I nor none of my "buddies" ever cast a vote for anything regarding crossbreeding. UKC made the decision to allow it with absolutely ZERO input from me or my "buddies."
You don't hear me claiming the breed as mine or putting down what you are breeding, or any of your breeding goals. I would appreciate the same courtesy in return. Good luck with your dogs.

__________________
Lonetree Kennels "Where dogs are made one tree at a time."
Home of-
David and Jessica Smith 605-270-2674
GRNITECH 'PR' DERBY CITY SANDY
GRNITECH GRCH CASH'S CAMO JUG OF SHINE
--2012 National Grand Nite Champion American Leopard Hound
--High Scoring Leopard 2012 Autumn Oaks
--High scoring Leopard Saturday night at Leopard days 2011
--Qualified for the 2011 UKC World Hunt.
--High Scoring Leopard of the 2011 UKC World Hunt
--Breed Winner for the 2011 Purina Race Hunt
--2011 South Dakota State Hunt Champion
CH RYLEIGH'S GRIM REAPER
--Tri-State Coonhunters Association 2010 Bench show dog of the year

And the Redbone--
2013 Tri-State Overall Bench Show Dog of the Year:
'PR' CH RAGGED RIDGE CJ (Willie) co-owned with Bob Julson

Last edited by kayapellijed390 on 09-16-2014 at 05:55 PM

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Old Post 09-15-2014 12:56 PM
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trapperjohn
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 46

I spent a long time researching the two lines I have before I bought a pup. I came from the cur world and switched to the Lep to get what I needed and wanted in a tree dog.
To be honest I would not look that hard at a cross.
The breeders I know and have talked to have put a lot hard work and time in to there lines. So why chance a great thing
Just my two cents

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Old Post 10-13-2014 09:07 PM
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