Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on this. I'm bringing it up because I'm currently working on a very similar situation for English Setters. Let me give you some background. Ten years ago UKC made the American Brittany and the French Brittany two different breeds. AKC does not consider them two breeds. But in a line up of ten dogs any one of you on this forum could tell whether a dog was French or American in type. They are that different.

I'm going through something similar right now with the English Setter and some individuals who feel the Llewellin is a different breed than English Setter. Problem is, in a line up of 10 dogs you could not tell the difference in type between a Llewellin bred dog and an English Setter. I would call the Llew simply a line of English Setters myself. That being said, I may be able to indicate on UKC registration records those dogs as English Setter (Llewellin) or something similar. And I think the Llew people will find value in that and support it. Not positive.

Skip to Mountain Curs. Had a couple calls recently that suggested we make the Kemmer its own breed. Now I'm not a Cur expert but to me the Kemmer is a line of Mountain Curs. I mean, they are not different enough in type to be able to go through a line up of Mountain Curs and differentiate the Kemmers and the OMCBA dogs right? Or wrong? I realize the Kemmer may be more consistently one color but both lines share the color and their type is also the same correct?

That being said, it may be possible to register dogs as Mountain Cur (Kemmer) or Mountain Cur (OMCBA) if there is value to doing so. Honestly it seems to me at one time when we first started the Cur / Feist program we did that. I'm not positive and don't remember why it was discontinued. Maybe someone else remembers.

I'm not sure what kind of parameters you would set in an effort to make something like this legitimate. I guess my question would be is there any need or benefit in even discussing such a project? It would appear as though both groups have been successful simply forming an Association of like minded people. But do those people consider those dogs all simply mountain curs or different enough to indicate such?

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location: East Tennessee
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My thoughts... Both have their own registry I don't think it would benefit the UK to differentiate. Jmo

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Cherokee Jett omcba , ukc ,wtda ,nkc registered

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Registered: Feb 2004
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They came from the same dogs originally, I don't see the difference. In fact many are still dual registered OMCBA/KSBA.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: DALTON, GA
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I do not see a need to do so. They both supposedly come from the same set of foundation dogs. I do not think it would benefit UKC to do so.

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Might do better to split the streak dogs into their own breed lol.

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quote:

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Originally posted by McSquizzie
Might do better to split the streak dogs into their own breed lol.

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Cherokee Jett omcba , ukc ,wtda ,nkc registered

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quote:

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Originally posted by McSquizzie
Might do better to split the streak dogs into their own breed lol.

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Barnesville, Ga.
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quote:

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Originally posted by nccatfisher
They came from the same dogs originally, I don't see the difference. In fact many are still dual registered OMCBA/KSBA.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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OK good, it would appear most of us agree on that point.

It was brought to my attention that I might have misunderstood the original request. As a correction, it had more to do with being able to form an Association within UKC for those that hunted one of these particular lines of dogs. I certainly don't have a problem with that but I can see it leading to another question. That being, should the Association be able to hold an event open only to dogs from their line. That's going to get messy.

UKC does allow a breed association to hold one event per year that is open only to their breed. A breed specialty so to speak. Entries cannot be based on whether or not the owner is a member of the association, only based on what breed the dog is registered as. Most of our coonhound breed associations take advantage of this and have one days/nights events at their national breed days open only to their breed. The other two nights are open to all breeds. Most of you are familiar with that concept.

Now how do we apply it to Cur/Feist? Could a newly formed UKC Kemmer Stock Association be able to hold a Kemmer Days which is only open to Kemmer dogs? I'm open to discussion but being consistent with how we have done things in the past I would be inclined to say not. They could have one day that was open to Mountain Cur only because that is a breed. I'm not sure we want to get started licensing events that are open only to certain line within a particular breed? Thoughts on that?

That being said I think it would still be worth forming any Associations that you wish and getting approved to hold licensed events. The vast majority of the dogs entered would be Association member dogs whose owners had come together for the sake of seeing and hunting with similarly bred dogs.

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Registered: Apr 2005
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"I would be inclined to say not. They could have one day that was open to Mountain Cur only because that is a breed. I'm not sure we want to get started licensing events that are open only to certain line within a particular breed? Thoughts on that?"

I would say that you are right. After all, they are called Kemmer Stock Mountain Curs.

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Registered: Feb 2004
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Quite frankly you might want to look at the numbers at the KSBA World hunts. That ought to answer your question for you.

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