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tjcc1978
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Registered: Jan 2019
Location: NM
Posts: 80

UKC vs AKC b&t's

I have noticed on here most, but not all UKC B&T's are not from old fashioned bloodlines....why is that? Most UKC B&T's now look nothing like a real coonhound....so many look like black labs with fat heads. I got lucky with my female. She is all old fashioned B&T. She is UKC registered.

My next question is, can I register an old fashioned B&T that is AKC registered with UKC? Or is there such a thing as dual registration??

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09-11-2020 06:26 PM

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Scarberry's B&Ts
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: Glenwood, West Virginia
Posts: 222

Yes, you can. The UKC vs. AKC type can be a long, drawn out discussion. The breed standards vary, but yet it is the same breed. Personally, that has never made much sense to me. The differences started way before our time, so I can't speak as to why things have evolved this way.

Here is information on UKC single registration:

https://www.ukcdogs.com/single-regi...d-tan-coonhound

You can complete the application online:

https://www.ukcdogs.com/single-registration

Hope this helps. Good luck with your hounds.

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09-11-2020 06:41 PM

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tjcc1978
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Ok, so now I know about the single registration. Thank you for that info. Will doing single registration on an AKC B&T negate the AKC registration? Or will that end up making that dog/dogs dual registered?

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09-11-2020 08:10 PM

Scarberry's B&Ts
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: Glenwood, West Virginia
Posts: 222

The dog(s) would be dual registered AKC & UKC. Being UKC registered doesn't affect the AKC registration whatsoever. My whole kennel is dual or triple registered. Some of them are PKC (Professional Kennel Club) registered also. Each is an independent registry.

Going the opposite direction, UKC and PKC registered hounds are also permitted to "open" register with AKC. AKC has a coonhound department that offers most of the same events as UKC and PKC.

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09-11-2020 09:55 PM

tjcc1978
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Oh wow, thanks for that info I am still new to this whole UKC thing as we just started our kennels last year. I am in search of an old fashioned male to add to my kennel, but have not found one that I am really liking as far as bloodlines/appearances. I know appearances aren't everything, but that classic old hound look with the really long ears is what I am after as well as a great hunting capability. I noticed the AKC B&T's tend to be more show hounds than anything, but I want to be able to keep the long eared look in my kennels. My female has that, I got her from a breeder in UT. She is beautiful and has an excellent personality. The Male I have now is from some breeder in TN that I have only ever seen on puppyfinder. My male now is really dark and has shorter ears. Not what I was wanting. This is why I am searching for a better male. He does not have good traits. I haven't had luck finding a good male. Not even when I was looking last year before I bought him. If I get an AKC male, and breed with my UKC female, would any pups be dual registered?

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09-11-2020 11:01 PM

Ridgerunner1988
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Registered: May 2020
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If I get an AKC male, and breed with my UKC female, would any pups be dual registered? [/B][/QUOTE]

Is your male registered with both ukc and akc or just akc? Is your female registered with both ukc and akc or just ukc? The sire and dam both have to be ukc and akc registered for the pups to be dual registered with ukc and akc. If one dog is registered with akc and the other dog is only registered with ukc then they cant be both male and female have to be registered in each registry.

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09-12-2020 12:56 AM

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OLD TIMER
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tjcc1978

The guy you need to get ahold of is in Central Wisconsin. He got some of the Limber Lost hounds. I got to hunt with Ed and Bobbie and got to train one from their kennel. Super long ears, cold nose with outstanding mouth. All natural hunt bred in, all you have to do is load up and cut them loose. I had his number so I�ll have to look. I think Mr Mohni would have it because they are pretty close to each out.

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09-12-2020 01:23 AM

Scarberry's B&Ts
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Location: Glenwood, West Virginia
Posts: 222

quote:
Originally posted by Ridgerunner1988
If I get an AKC male, and breed with my UKC female, would any pups be dual registered?

Is your male registered with both ukc and akc or just akc? Is your female registered with both ukc and akc or just ukc? The sire and dam both have to be ukc and akc registered for the pups to be dual registered with ukc and akc. If one dog is registered with akc and the other dog is only registered with ukc then they cant be both male and female have to be registered in each registry. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ideally, yes both parents have to be registered with UKC. However, each puppy would be eligible for the single registration option if the sire is AKC and the dam is UKC.

Single registration is cheap and easy. $35.00 is what it costs to single register with UKC from the AKC papers. I've done 2 this way.

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09-12-2020 01:47 AM

tjcc1978
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Ok, so if I get a male from the AKC, and get him single registered with UKC, he will be dually registered. What I take from this is that I would have to register my female with AKC to be able to have pups registered? I am confused..

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09-12-2020 02:23 AM

Scarberry's B&Ts
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: Glenwood, West Virginia
Posts: 222

quote:
Originally posted by tjcc1978
Ok, so if I get a male from the AKC, and get him single registered with UKC, he will be dually registered. What I take from this is that I would have to register my female with AKC to be able to have pups registered? I am confused..

Dually registered just means they are registered with two different registries. UKC and AKC are completely different organizations.

In order to do litter registration with UKC, both parents would have to be registered with UKC.

In order to do litter registration with AKC, both parents would have to be registered with AKC.

If you bred an AKC only parent to a UKC only parent, the pups would have to be individually single registered. So you would provide the one parent's AKC information and fill in the other's UKC information. Each pup would have to be registered separately this way, so $35 per pup. In the long run, it would be cheaper to have both parents registered with whichever registry you are wanting to have the pups with.

Feel free to call or text me. Kolby (304) 638-6440.

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09-12-2020 02:44 AM

River Birch Run
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You can not single reg. a B&T in UKC anymore, our board put a stop to that a few yrs back, because UKC opened the Cross breed. Unless they changed that back and kept it hush hush. It's not up to UKC its up to the B&T baord.

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09-12-2020 01:24 PM

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Scarberry's B&Ts
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Location: Glenwood, West Virginia
Posts: 222

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
You can not single reg. a B&T in UKC anymore, our board put a stop to that a few yrs back, because UKC opened the Cross breed. Unless they changed that back and kept it hush hush. It's not up to UKC its up to the B&T baord.

You can not single register like you used to under an inspector. If you don't have proof of pedigree, they are considered x-bred now.

UKC allows single registration from AKC registration, with a 3 generation pedigree, and pictures of the dog. This link explains the process:

https://www.ukcdogs.com/single-regi...d-tan-coonhound

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09-12-2020 01:33 PM

tjcc1978
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I may have found a UKC male but if I can't, then I am going AKC because nobody wants to breed the old way in UKC anymore.

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09-12-2020 06:51 PM

Ridgerunner1988
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Old Style Black n Tans

If you get a good looking old style black n tan that can compete in the hunts and win then they would want to breed to him. The problem with the old style of black n tans is they lack the speed they need to compete in competition now days so that's one reason they're bred the way they are now. Dont get me wrong I've seen some old style hounds that could get out there and really tree some coons, work a track that most dogs would blow by and have the meat up the tree at the end of that track, but they just lacked the speed it took to compete with the competition that's out there now. Let me add that I have nothing against black n tans, I prefer a black dog or a red dog, I'm just speaking from my point of view and personal experience and what I've been told by some big time comp hunters who hunt black n tans. Let me also add that Gene Hicks down here in tennessee has some good old style black n tans, he has a website called Albert's Black n Tans it would be worth your time looking into him and his stock of hounds.

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Last edited by Ridgerunner1988 on 09-12-2020 at 11:13 PM

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09-12-2020 11:09 PM

Black Ash Bawl
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Location: WI
Posts: 436

competition rules

I agree , your old style black and tan gets on a cold track and the hunt is over before he gets it worked out. The rules favor hot nosed hounds that can tree a hot or med track quick. I had a hound from limberlost kennels. Best sounding hound period. go a facebook give this guy a call , his hounds might go back to limberlost , maple hills breeding" 3 Star/ Dunn River Kennels. " Bigger problem with the old fashioned hound is the akc show people got them and breed for looks and long ears. This has led to ears that are too long , and no hunting instinct. Maple Hill and limberlost was the best kennels back in the day. The akc people want way more money for a pup and restricted papers. If you want to pay 1200 dollars for a pup , this lady's dogs go back to limberlost and maple hills. http://www.paynesblackandtancoonhounds.com/ She has a great web page to check out just to see the great old fashioned looking dogs.

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09-13-2020 09:29 AM

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tjcc1978
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I don't have Facebook. Which is why I have asked for help on here for contact information to these kennels/breeders.

What I don't understand is why the split. It's the same breed, yet AKC and UKC standards are way different. And AKC dogs are way too expensive for my taste, I just checked out that link you sent me.

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09-13-2020 06:07 PM

Ridgerunner1988
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Here is Gene Hicks number 8652133958 or 4233265217, he is the man who owned 2 time Albert and sundown Ryder and big time albert and alot more really good hounds. It would be worth getting in touch with him.

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09-13-2020 08:06 PM

tjcc1978
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Thank you. I will give him a call.

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09-14-2020 04:52 AM

honalieh
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2161

AKC Black and Tans

I saw a reference to Limberlost Kennels (Kuesters) above. I believe that I saw a while back that someone in PA is now breeding the Limberlost dogs (got them from the Kuesters).

I think that would be worth looking up if you are looking for an AKC type Black and Tan that was still bred for hunting.

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09-23-2020 03:34 AM

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Rocket 88
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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 133

Tennessee breeder?

quote:
[i] The Male I have now is from some breeder in TN that I have only ever seen on puppyfinder. My male now is really dark and has shorter ears. Not what I was wanting. This is why I am searching for a better male. He does not have good traits. I haven't had luck finding a good male. Not even when I was looking last year before I bought him. If I get an AKC male, and breed with my UKC female, would any pups be dual registered? [/B]

Do you remember who the breeder was in TN? Was it Sammie Wynn? If it was I might be interested in breeding to your male. PM if you want. Thanks!

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10-09-2020 03:42 PM

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tjcc1978
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Your PM box is full. Yes, my male is from Sammie Wynn. Text me at 505-452-6426. I can send you some pictures.

Tammy

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10-09-2020 06:12 PM

Rocket 88
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Posts: 133

Thanks!

Ok. Will do. Thank you!

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10-09-2020 06:46 PM

tjcc1978
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Seems the AKC hounds have taken the old fashioned look away from the UKC B&T's. I contacted John, who has the Limberlost Kennel hounds along with Chris Foster from Foster's Old Fashioned Black and tans and both of their kennels have AKC Old Fashioned B&T's that actually have been bred as hunters. THESE are the dogs I have been searching for. It's unfortunate that hunters in the UKC decided to eliminate these beautiful old fashioned bloodlines from their kennels. I can understand why they did it, from what I was told, some of the old fashioned bloodlines have hounds that have cold track noses and don't track 'new' or 'hot' track well. And they are a lot bigger than the B&T's being bred in the UKC now. BUT, for those of us who like that classic hound look, the long, low-set ears with lots of skin on their muzzles....We are just realizing the complete change in B&T's from UKC to AKC, and didn't realize why. I also have read on several AKC breeder's sites that their hounds are for show and as pets. Most of them aren't hunting B&T's. And most of them require contracts and/or limited registrations. I have found only TWO breeders that do not. And they are hunting lines. OLD bloodlines...

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10-17-2020 04:13 AM

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