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I sincerely hope that every hunter will have at least 1 experience in their hunting lifetime to witness a true cold nosed dog. One that runs not wallows a track, but runs a track that known good dogs can not smell. A dog that opens their eyes to a true cold nosed dog. I have been fortunate to own a few, not many that could do this and they were fun to hunt. I would really love to own one more before my hunting days are over. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Ive owned one hound in 50 + years that was a cold trailing tree the coon dog.And shed burn up a hot track too.You could tell by her mouth what she was doing.Long bawl on the coldest,short bawl when getting it heated up and fast chop on the hot track.I have some blue hounds now that are as good of track dogs as ive hunted with and dont have to have a hot track to tree the coon but they are not like her.I wouldnt trade my hounds I have now for her back tho.When you turned her loose she treed some where.No reverse.I cant hunt a dog like her anymore.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Georgeb
Ive owned one hound in 50 + years that was a cold trailing tree the coon dog.And shed burn up a hot track too.You could tell by her mouth what she was doing.Long bawl on the coldest,short bawl when getting it heated up and fast chop on the hot track.I have some blue hounds now that are as good of track dogs as ive hunted with and dont have to have a hot track to tree the coon but they are not like her.I wouldnt trade my hounds I have now for her back tho.When you turned her loose she treed some where.No reverse.I cant hunt a dog like her anymore.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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There's cold nose and too dumb to use it. And then there's cold nose with the brains to be able to "RUN" on tracks that others can't begin to smell. Seems to me 90% of hunters haven't seen an Elite style track dog, and I personally think 80-90% haven't hunted with an Elite type of dog. And I also think there's elite dogs that are different types of elite. Some are elite in 1 category but are avg in another.

There's below avg dogs, avg dogs, above avg dogs, and elite dogs. Most hunters, pleasure or local competition hunters that haven't even hunted with above avg dogs let alone the elite dogs. And I can honestly say I've only hunted with a few that I feel were close to being above avg to elite total packages. These dogs are the few and far between types that are once in a lifetime hounds.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
George, Sounds like you had a dog that I described. One that could run and tree a coon that others dogs did not know existed. Other than hunting to wide she was my kind of dog. I hunt mountains and thinner coon populations and I love that type of dog. Having such a dog often meant treeing a coon or coming up empty. I always wanted to tree a coon. Dave

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quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
There's cold nose and too dumb to use it. And then there's cold nose with the brains to be able to "RUN" on tracks that others can't begin to smell. Seems to me 90% of hunters haven't seen an Elite style track dog, and I personally think 80-90% haven't hunted with an Elite type of dog. And I also think there's elite dogs that are different types of elite. Some are elite in 1 category but are avg in another.

There's below avg dogs, avg dogs, above avg dogs, and elite dogs. Most hunters, pleasure or local competition hunters that haven't even hunted with above avg dogs let alone the elite dogs. And I can honestly say I've only hunted with a few that I feel were close to being above avg to elite total packages. These dogs are the few and far between types that are once in a lifetime hounds.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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These dogs yall are calling elite did they have any faults or did you consider them to be a perfect hound?

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
All I can say about this comment is if you really believe this you’ve never owned a truly cold nosed hound or seen one in action. I’m not talking about a track straddler that many think is a cold nosed dog which often actually turns out to be at best a medium nosed dog that can’t move a track.

Ask the successful big game hound men & some women that hunt mountain lions and bobcat on snow in the sub zero temps and dry powder snow. I’ve heard this “all dogs can smell the same” for years and it’s just plain false.

I’ve owned and hunted hounds for over 40 years and I know better than to think that all hounds can smell the same. It’s not true.

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I don't understand how some think they know what a dog is smelling as opposed to him having the desire to work a cold track. I understand you saying you've seen dogs trail when others wouldn't but how do you know the other dog couldn't smell it. In controlled conditions scientist have concluded that all dogs have pretty much the same scenting ability. When you're breeding for cold trailing dogs how do you know you're getting more nose or more desire to cold trail? These hard running "hot nosed" competition dogs are looking for a coon and not a coon track.

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
I don't understand how some think they know what a dog is smelling as opposed to him having the desire to work a cold track. I understand you saying you've seen dogs trail when others wouldn't but how do you know the other dog couldn't smell it. In controlled conditions scientist have concluded that all dogs have pretty much the same scenting ability. When you're breeding for cold trailing dogs how do you know you're getting more nose or more desire to cold trail? These hard running "hot nosed" competition dogs are looking for a coon and not a coon track.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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I believe all hounds have the same amount of nose but it's the desire they have to run what they smell is what makes the dog better. A true coonhound has the desire to get out there and tree a coon not just be out there to be out here after anything they smell. This all comes from John Wick and I agree with him on this. Because if you take a plate of food outside do the pups not all come to the scent of the food. Whether or not the hound wants to tree coon or not is the question for me. And that where the breeding and training comes into play.

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Ridgerunner1988

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I believe all hounds have the same amount of nose but it's the desire they have to run what they smell is what makes the dog better. A true coonhound has the desire to get out there and tree a coon not just be out there to be out here after anything they smell. This all comes from John Wick and I agree with him on this. Because if you take a plate of food outside do the pups not all come to the scent of the food. Whether or not the hound wants to tree coon or not is the question for me. And that where the breeding and training comes into play.

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quote:

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Originally posted by OLD TIMER
I know that there are hounds that have a better nose than others.

But I also think that some are trained so they don't learn how to use their nose was the point I was trying to make.

Say like a 20 something young lady that thinks shes as good as Ms Clark in basketball--They have all the same equipment, heck they may even look like twins, but there's just that something Ms Clark has that makes her better at "her game." The same is true in hounds, they all have the same equipment, but some are better at their game. And training can get them better and maybe to their best of their abilty--but some just have that special something. The night I seen that first hand was when my young Mikie took a track out across an iced over harvest corn field and Cheta II couldn't run with him. Now Cheta had a heck of a nose and I seen her open and move a track while the other 3 in the cast didn't know a coon had been there. After a 1/4 mile they finally joined in and they did tree it. Mikie was young and I was thinking that maybe this didn't have a ringtail. But when he located and started counting them off, that was the night that proved to me that they all can not smell the track the same.

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Those of you who think all hounds can smell the same need to come far enough North to where we get plenty of snow in the winter and run bobcat or snowshoe hare on 12 to 14 inches of dry powder or more and temps anywhere from the lows below zero at night to daytime highs in the single numbers above zero. Trust me, you will quickly come to realize all dogs DO NOT have the same olfactory capability!

I’ve lived in Northern New England for all my 66 years of life. Got my first beagle for snowshoe hare in 1977. I’ve watched many a man who thought he had a hell of a snowshoe hare hound on snow come to the realization that he didn’t have much when put down with one that could run a hare for hours in dry powder in the single digits above and below zero like he was tied to it. That’s not to say that it is an everyday occurrence. Hunting hounds on snow is a whole different ball game than bare ground. I’m sure hot and dry conditions present really tough going too. We don’t have that hot and dry type of running very often here in the Northeast.

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Dan

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
Those of you who think all hounds can smell the same need to come far enough North to where we get plenty of snow in the winter and run bobcat or snowshoe hare on 12 to 14 inches of dry powder or more and temps anywhere from the lows below zero at night to daytime highs in the single numbers above zero. Trust me, you will quickly come to realize all dogs DO NOT have the same olfactory capability!

I’ve lived in Northern New England for all my 66 years of life. Got my first beagle for snowshoe hare in 1977. I’ve watched many a man who thought he had a hell of a snowshoe hare hound on snow come to the realization that he didn’t have much when put down with one that could run a hare for hours in dry powder in the single digits above and below zero like he was tied to it. That’s not to say that it is an everyday occurrence. Hunting hounds on snow is a whole different ball game than bare ground. I’m sure hot and dry conditions present really tough going too. We don’t have that hot and dry type of running very often here in the Northeast.

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Donald Bergeron

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The Quincy, Mich UKC Zone hunt tonight and tomorrow should show instances of scenting ability as WI and MI have been very wet all summer and now hot and dry!

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There is a hunter in the northwest who used to be employed by the federal government for animal control, to kill nuisance bears and Mt lions that were killing livestock etc…

He used proven dry ground hunting hounds, especially for when trailing the Mt lions…he also had a Kemmer stock Mt cur he started hunting with the hounds…he said this dog would be running the track ahead of his hounds…

I knew that Mt cur bloodline well on account I used that bloodline mixed in with my original line of dogs…these dogs were line bred and inbred to a few dogs that must of been really good dogs…i wouldn't say they were cold nosed dogs but their nose was good enough to make good hunting dogs…and quite a few had outstanding winding abilities…

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Originally posted by shadinc
Again, are you confusing nose and trailing ability? Do you think you dog can outrun a bloodhound? Do you think he has a better nose than a bloodhound?

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Dan

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
Hell no I’m not confusing “nose” and trailing ability! I’ve seen several hounds that had a hell of a nose over the years but couldn’t get out of a 25 yard circle with a cold track. I’m sure I’ve never owned a dog that had a better nose than a bloodhound nor would I want one for coon or hare.

My experience with most dogs that have a cold nose on coon and snowshoe hare is that they at times begin to have issues around 7 to 8 years old determining which direction the game they are pursuing is headed. By the way, that’s why you’ll see folks who run big game walking a long with a dog leashed on an old track when the track is visible in snow or mud to ensure the dog is headed in the right direction before turning it loose.

Really good track dogs are not plentiful! The competition coon hunts reward the hot nosed, get alone tree dog so it’s really no surprise that it’s harder than ever to find a really good track dog, not that it’s ever been easy!

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Donald Bergeron

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……….and my point is if they can’t smell it in the 1st place they can’t move it!

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Dan

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
……….and my point is if they can’t smell it in the 1st place they can’t move it!

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Donald Bergeron

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I wonder if this is another chicken and egg situation 🤔?

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I was reading where a study says the bloodhound has the best nose…and they also made it sound like the bluetick, labrador, German Shepherd and other breeds were a close second…

Regardless of nose power…the trigger needs to engage nose to brain before the dog takes the track or the scent has to reach a certain strength in the wind before the dog follows the scent in the wind to see where it's coming from…

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We don't understand dog's noses. I remember hunting in a corn patch. Immediately behind was a spot where 75 cow spent the night It was wet and muddy the stench was terrible. The dogs ran a coon through the middle of the cows and never missed a bark. If a man had stood in the middle of that with a coon in his hand, he couldn't have smelled it. Dogs identify each other by smelling butt holes. I never tried it but I think they would all smell pretty much the same to us. When a dog empties out other dogs run and put their nises one inch from it. I can smell it fifty feet away. You ever wonder how a dog can back track himself? That nose is not just stronger than ours it's also a lot more discriminating.

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Donald Bergeron

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Cold nosed coon hounds has always been a favorite topic of mine, but what many may not know is I worked in an academic/research department for 35 years. In fact, I was highly involved on many levels of conducting research for nearly 40 years.

Science is like everything else. There is an whole gambit of science. There is good reproducible science. Then there is mediocre science, and of course way too much crap science. Unfortunately, in all of my experience crap and mediocre science far out weighs good science.

I always balk when someone assumes because it is science that alone makes it right. Nope, not even close!

Sorry about the rant, I just feel compelled to try to set the science record straight.

Now, that aside, I have always enjoyed a hound that could take about any track and put a coon at the end.

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