Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Tonasket,Washington
Posts: 923

Spanky,if My memory serves me correct Wagnorers Mr Quick,the sire of the immortal HillBilly Mac was a single registered dog and through the rumor mill not all walker.I think for one the Walker Association having single registration open most years is one reason our breed of choice is dominating force it is.You hear the arguement all the time that so many strains of the breeds have no track left in them.What better way to put it back than to infuse some big game blood.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 800

The way the current Single Reg system is now allows for everything you have just mentioned. Lying about pedigree, cross breeds, and whatnot... So I'm sure it's already been done...

The prposed idea seems simple to me. I think everyones putting way too much tought into it...

I believe all they were saying is instead of it saying in the single reg application - "Dog must be able to strike, trail, tree and hold tree on a Coon without company" it'd say "Dog must be able to strike, trail, tree and hold tree on a Coon, Bobcat, Mt Lion, or Bear without company"

It's still have to be inspected and meet beed standard, and have a 3 gen pedigree written up. Everything the same as it is.

I don't see where the confusion or missunderstandings come from?

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Herriman, Utah
Posts: 125

I think this is funny..Most of the people that are pushing for this are the same people that have been saying for years papers don't catch me squat.

I don't think the Breed Associations will buy into this and if they do I think it will be the finnal thing that brings down the UKC.
Will the UKC lower their standards? If so what is the difference between them and the PKC? IF you want a papered dog so bad, Go Registar them with the PKC.
Just like Mr Kemmer when he wanted to introduce the Hybreds to his Registary.. well it went to heck fast.
I think you are opening a can of worms that I hope the UKC and the breed assoc. are smart enough to see.

I think Spanky had a better Idea of a Big Game Breed and I think most people have misunderstood this post to be as such, This is what most of us big game guys want anyway.... Catch a Bobcat ,Lion or a Bear and register them as a coon dog...Ha Ha Ha ..think about what you are saying... Is this what you really want? Not me ,and I think if most of the people understood the post they would take back their vote.

The UKC opened a new breed for the treeing curs (cross bred dogs)why not for Big Game Hounds? If it is so important we should be shooting for this not what Hellcat is proposing.

We bought a light foot english a couple of years ago from Mr Myers and we couldn't get papers on it, just wondering are any of the light foot dogs Registared with the UKC? Is that why you light foot guys are pushing for this?

And please note I meant no offence to you light foot guys I am just trying to understand why you are pushing for this so bad.
So that being said , bearhunter, please do not delete my post.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: West Kill, NY
Posts: 2045

this is all theoretical--my own hound is a potlicker, and I don't run him on bear intentionally.

1) Here in NY, it is illegal to run hounds on bear with less than two dogs or more than eight. Not to say that a hound doesn't take it into his head to run a bear by himself now and then, just that its illegal, even if the hound has a bear license. Would laws like this mean that we have to bring our dogs to another state to be inspected?

2) There are some sorry hot-nosed coonhounds that can run a day-old bear track. Bears stink. Doesn't mean the hound has the grit to tree a bear, or the brains to tree one without getting killed. At the same time, its really hard for a hound to track a big cat--it takes a hound with a cold nose. Do we want the same standards for lion and bear and make them all big game hounds?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 4312

quote:

---

Originally posted by Redwood Hounds
The way the current Single Reg system is now allows for everything you have just mentioned. Lying about pedigree, cross breeds, and whatnot... So I'm sure it's already been done...

The prposed idea seems simple to me. I think everyones putting way too much tought into it...

I believe all they were saying is instead of it saying in the single reg application - "Dog must be able to strike, trail, tree and hold tree on a Coon without company" it'd say "Dog must be able to strike, trail, tree and hold tree on a Coon, Bobcat, Mt Lion, or Bear without company"

It's still have to be inspected and meet beed standard, and have a 3 gen pedigree written up. Everything the same as it is.

I don't see where the confusion or missunderstandings come from?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Montana
Posts: 424

The way the current Single Reg system is now allows for everything you have just mentioned. Lying about pedigree, cross breeds, and whatnot... So I'm sure it's already been done...

By your own words Cassandra....why turn our heads to a failed system and welcome in more questionable breedings into the bloodlines of the breeds. Maybe we need to worry more about fixing the sytem that is in place first that will prevent such dishonesty.

Maybe I am not as passionate about single registration because I have never had to single registered a hound. I know there are many people out there that have a litter that they would like to say is UKC registered so they can get their $300 pup price when in reality they are a mixed bunch.

Your problem of having a hound from a purebred parent with no papers is a small percentage in the big game world. There are by far more crossbred hounds in the west in search of making better hounds then someone that just did not want to pay for paperwork or have a pet pieve with UKC.

Some will say no way, well ...... its a fact. Your so called crossbred owners and breeders are not going to be visiting the UKC forums to read about something they have no need for. Again I thought this was suppose to be a way to gather those fellas together and better understand and recognize their hounds not the small minority of lazy houndsmen that just did not want to pay for registration.

I commend UKC for extending their hand out to the big game houndsmen and trying to find some common ground but single registration will hurt the whole more then help the few.....IMO

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

I'am going thru it at this time "Sgl. Reg." one of my hounds.. He has passed his phyical inspection now he has to strick run and tree his own Coon.. Well here's were I my hound is having the problum. "I ran him hard on Bob's thru Jan-Feb and ever scence he has been taking forever to lock on Tree.. He will Cross over to Tree then in less than 2 min. he's circleing for 2 min. Checking to see if the Critter Jumped out on him.. Is he doing Wrong ?? "NO" he is doing what he is susposed to do .. But he will Fail his Coon Test.. I was Comp hunting him and them Darn Bobs have changed the way he trees. But him and I love running them Critters.. Heck He has 1 year old Pups that have been Proven on Big Game Lion, Bear and Bobs..

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Montana
Posts: 424

Steve do you know the 3 generation lineage of this hound? You raise and breed Majestics, is this hound from some of your own breeding? does it have bloodhound in it?

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Home of Groom Creek Kennels in the heart of the Rocky Mountains

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

He can be traced back 10 gen. and he does have 1/4 AKC Blood hound in him . But Whos to say He may have the Same Formula of breeding as the First and Org. Red Bones had, and Not have any Red Bone in him. As far as the History of the Red Bone Goes They Had a portion of Red Bloodhound in them and Mixes of Other Unknown Avb. Hounds. He has been Bred to Red Bones now and Reproduces Prefect PhenoType Red Bones.. He will Be An Outcross Option Breeding for someone wanting to stir their Breeding Program.. One thing that I found out thru "Buckshot" That I was unaware of Was the the Breed Assoc have "Open Reg." Every year.. Open Reg. is a breeding practice that should only be used once in a while for the prospeirity of the Line.
But the Breed Assoc have a commity that Reviews each Hound and its their Decision to allow or dis allow a Hound into their Program..

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 87

If I am understanding this correctly,my bear dog would have to strike,trail and tree a bear all by himself in order to be single registered.I own 4 dogs that will catch a bear all by themselves but I sure as hell am not going to turn them out on a bear by themselves on purpose.That would be irresponsible in my opinion.I would never intentionally risk putting a dog that has all those capabilities in that kind of jeapordy.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

It was never my understanding that big game dogs would have to be evaluated on big game running solo. Yes, we do that for coonhounds but to me it makes no sense on big game. And keep in mind guys, the coonhound evaluation is just to make sure a dog will go hunting, run and tree. It doesn't differentiate between the average and great dogs. Likewise, I would assume that for single registration needs, the Association would need to know that the dog will take a track, open, run it and tree. We can talk more at length about a tougher program to maybe recognize the truly outstanding individuals. The single registration process is an attempt to keep out dogs that will not run and tree. I would assume on big game you would attempt to evaluate whether or not a dog is a productive or at least a participating pack member.

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

Very well spoken Todd!! and I think that should clear things up !!

As soon as this Subject has ever come Up it has been Shot Full of Holes before it ever gets started.. As you can See "Big Game Hound" "Fokes Are Different" !! Who Sells hounds to Whom and How much they Charge and Get for their Pups Ect.. !!! It will never Happen !! and Its a Shame !!

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Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
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One more thing. It's very possible this idea will be accepted by one or two of the breed associations and rejected by another. The breed associations set their own parameters for bringing dogs in. Some, such as B&T and Plott, are rarely even open for single registration. Some, such as English, remain open at all time.

Some require a three generation pedigree. Some, English and TW, do not require a pedigree and will list unknown ancestory as "open". I could see where a couple of the Assn's might say yeah, inspect them on big game, that makes sense. Another might say no thanks. I won't know until I bring it up.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 4312

quote:

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Originally posted by todd kellam
One more thing. It's very possible this idea will be accepted by one or two of the breed associations and rejected by another. The breed associations set their own parameters for bringing dogs in. Some, such as B&T and Plott, are rarely even open for single registration. Some, such as English, remain open at all time.

Some require a three generation pedigree. Some, English and TW, do not require a pedigree and will list unknown ancestory as "open". I could see where a couple of the Assn's might say yeah, inspect them on big game, that makes sense. Another might say no thanks. I won't know until I bring it up.

---

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Herriman, Utah
Posts: 125

quote:

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Originally posted by bearhunter
For those of you that belong to a breed Asso,I suggest if you are for this,let your Asso Pres know about it before AO.

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Walker breeding at it's Best
Used to catch Big Game
We do not breed for length of ear, but what is between the ears. (Lester Nance)

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Herriman, Utah
Posts: 125

Here is the Treeing Walker web site http://treeingwalkerbreeders.com/in...ge&Itemid=1

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Walker breeding at it's Best
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We do not breed for length of ear, but what is between the ears. (Lester Nance)

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1344

Jeez... And I always hear that girls are supposed to be bad about bickering.. Are there really that many people who are going to be dishonest?? Probably the same people who are swapping papers anyway.... Maybe it won't work.. maybe the breed associations are going to say no anyways since they are registered as a Treeing Walker "Coonhound" or Bluetick "Coonhound"... But we are shooting it all to hell before we get there..

What about the honest people who's dog should have been registered, and they are **** fine dogs and worth using in our breeding programs?.. Are we just SOL? And if we want papered dogs then we might as well shoot what we have and go buy a papered dog, who probably back in it's ancestors had paperwork fudged at one point or the other?

I just don't think it is fair to punish the good people for the bad ones.. Who will probably one way or another find a way to paper that dog....

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1522

quote:

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Originally posted by ladycathunter
Jeez... And I always hear that girls are supposed to be bad about bickering.. Are there really that many people who are going to be dishonest?? Probably the same people who are swapping papers anyway.... Maybe it won't work.. maybe the breed associations are going to say no anyways since they are registered as a Treeing Walker "Coonhound" or Bluetick "Coonhound"... But we are shooting it all to hell before we get there.. What about the honest people who's dog should have been registered, and they are **** fine dogs and worth using in our breeding programs.. Are we just SOL? And if we want papered dogs then we might as well shoot what we have and go buy a papered dog, who probably back in it's ancestors had paperwork fudged at one point or the other?

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Light Foot English

"They are often imitated but never duplicated"

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Bonners Ferry, ID
Posts: 776

quote:

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Originally posted by mr.pacojack
We bought a light foot english a couple of years ago from Mr Myers and we couldn't get papers on it, just wondering are any of the light foot dogs Registared with the UKC? Is that why you light foot guys are pushing for this?

And please note I meant no offence to you light foot guys I am just trying to understand why you are pushing for this so bad.
So that being said , bearhunter, please do not delete my post.

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Herriman, Utah
Posts: 125

I'll pm you his name

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Walker breeding at it's Best
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We do not breed for length of ear, but what is between the ears. (Lester Nance)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

The current breakdown for the Breed Associations Open Registration is like this:

Treeing Walkers from March 1 through May 31 each year
Black & Tans from September until October 31 each year
Blueticks from from July 1st through Dec 31st each year
English is year round
Redbone -- I am not sure-- I know it was open all of 2006
Plotts -- I am not sure

Each have certain guidlines...........I know with the B&T Association, you must have in your possession a complete three generation ancestral pedigree.

Also, I beleive you must be a member of the association you want to single register with as well.

Last edited by Buckshot on 07-26-2007 at 07:30 PM

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 64

quote:

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Originally posted by Emily
2) There are some sorry hot-nosed coonhounds that can run a day-old bear track. Bears stink. [/B]

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Bonners Ferry, ID
Posts: 776

Paco,
I've never heard of the guy, but I can assure you that anyone who buys a dog directly from me will get the correct papers on it if they they want them. If someone buys a dog from a guy I sold a dog to, and doesn't get the papers from that person, I can't do much about that. But if they would contact me about it, I would do my best to help get the person the correct papers for the dog. Why would I go through the trouble of keeping all my dogs registration papers current, and then not sell them with papers.

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Idaho Lightfoot English Hounds
Our goal isn’t to produce the highest number of hounds we can. It is to produce the highest percentage,
of the highest quality of hounds we can.
208-267-1186
Home of:
Idaho Tapp Out Sniper
Idaho Lightfoot Kinder
Former Home of:
Idaho Lightfoot Black Jack
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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

Thanks Drew.. But I would really Like to Know just how many Sgl Reg Hounds Each Breed Assoc has been Allowing in ?? UKC Should know the #s and I would think the actual # of hounds allowed in would ease everyones Concerns of the "Open Reg."

I would gess the # is less than 10 per year per Reg. But I may be wrong..

Can anyone Give some insite ??

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Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

quote:

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Originally posted by Nolte

I also know that if this "big game" registry would be awfully small if a dog had to tree it's own bobcat to be let in. In WI, You could probably buy a 30 pack of beer and give one to each guy who got a dog in, and still have leftovers.

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