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I got a monkey faced dog out of Bullet, and a monkey faced bitch out of Geronimo, if u dont like them red heads, fine, but before u judge them, bring ur best and turn loose with them, and then we will see if the red hurts their coon treein ability.....I personally know of a real good spot Vaught can stick his badmouthin.....

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: columbia,mo.
Posts: 1256

You guys can say what you wish about how your hounds look. I like mine when I can't see him at all and his nails are dug into the side of one of these huge missouri oaks. Oh, and that red headed female Roxann, most of you guys don't want to tease her because she is one of the best little females that I have hunted with!!!!!!!!! Like it or not, looks don't tree coon and I think we are on a coon hound site. As far as Dave Dean, and his dogs when I was at his cabin you had to move trophies out of the way to sit down and I don't mean your everyday little trophies with the dog treeing on them. I mean big ones that take both hands to move. So before much breed bashing gets done maybe we should all look at our trophy case and see how many there are hiding in there!!

All I want to know is how is ukc going to be able to see if they can complete my papers now that they are 3/4 instead of a very impressive set like I had? It isn't only bad for me but for the guys who have pups out of my Bo dog. The tough part is I will have to breed up two more generations for the pups to be purple ribbon bred again. That takes a while to get the kind of dogs that satisfy a person to the point that they want to base all their dogs around that blood. I thought I had that and I like Bo and what he is doing now I just have to work on the papers I guess.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Longview Texas
Posts: 801

I personally do not want a Red-Headed dog. Do I think color has anything to do with treeing a coon? Why heck no! Its the same thing as a Walker dog man not wanting a "Black and White" dog. They want that tri-color. They dont want one "ticked up" either. Its not a knock on a dogs ability, its just a personal preference! I really liked the looks of the old spud dog except for that red color, I also liked EVERYTHING about Bullit except for the color, and I have never seen a dog mark his pups more than Bullit! I have given Bullit a great recamendation every time someone has asked me what I thought of him. I am a Vaughn blood guy, and Elbert Vaughn had many, many monkey faced dogs, but he tried to breed it out as best he could. I personally like a very "dark" colored dog and I dont know if I have every seen a real dark colored bluetick that was "monkey faced". My point is dont get mad at a guy for wanting a certain look in a dog. To some people looks are very important. Remember, he is the one who has to look at him every time he feeds him.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

I could care less as to what you country mile Dave Oswald thinks about what I think, and as far as a red head goes there is a big difference in a red headed blue dog, and a monkey face dog. A red headed bluetick does not have the monkey face he is more looks of an english dog and really don't look like an english
she/he is in a look of thier own. Hey ........If no one wants to take me serious then so be it as far as an embarrassment to a legend goes I will not comment on here about that.......

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

What legend are you speaking of, and how old is the legend ????????????

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 763

John your so backwards dumb you cant even figure it out. Case closed.

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Dave & Nicki Oswald

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check out my website, and look at Moon......she is out of Geronimo, and is pretty dark, with a solid monkeyface.....not sure if she is as dark as u mean or not, but she is sure monkey faced.....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

YOU ARE THE SMART ONE CLOSE THE CASE IF YOU WISH MR. INTELLEGENT............

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

Monkey face blues have been around for a while more frequent after the Bullett dog came along, or at least more popular in blue dogs of today and it looks as if goes back to Dry Fork Blue Spud that cross has produced some real hounds, but now these Red Headed Dogs are from a total different cross, and with some of the same blood as Dryfork Blue Spud, but without the Smokey River Blood added to them. I am sorry but I have wondered where a total red head comes from, but now that Mr. Manns has shed some light on that now we know maybe what has happened. Littlejohn is right it don't have to be a certain color to be a coon dog, and I sure as he## don't mind an off colored hound as long as he/she will tree a coon, but had I been a breeder that red head would be history.

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John M. Vaught

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what u mean by redhead? I misunderstood, but these kind of comments......
"Mackie Manns can tell you all about the Spanky line as he is now the most successful breeder of this line around, and the color of all his blues are blueticked without the red heads, and that small head look that looks worse than a cur dog........Those red head blueticks just don't have the look that suits a true blueticker........."

so let me get this straight, if it isnt what u like vaught, it isnt what any blueticker woudl like? But regardless of all that, the slander, and badmouthin dont belong here.....if u want to say it, why dont u call up Mackie, and tell him?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Longview Texas
Posts: 801

Matt, Moon is a real good-looking female, she doesnt seem to be quite as monkey-faced as alot of them, her looks would probably suite me as far as i can tell in a picture, but no, I mean a LOT darker than her, Matt, I really like them darker than a bluetick probably ought to be.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

What on earth are you talking about here.....I have nothing but respect for Mackie Manns, and his line of dogs as far as slander I am confused here as who has been slandered....... you have the bad mouth that you can't control so Mr Blue Style be careful of your words............And by the way I will post here until UKC tells me I can't you my friend have no control over what I wish to say its a free world to say what is on ones mind so thats what I will continue doing until GOD lets me breathe my last breath.

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John M. Vaught

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I understood you to be talking bout Mr Mann, if not, I will attempt to pull my foot out of my mouth....it just seems that u have a very negative attitude towards anyone or any line other than ur own, and if it aint what u like, then it aint right..............p.s. what did I say that constitutes "the bad mouth"...kinda curious.....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: OHIO
Posts: 962

doesnt the undertaker dog have cricket in his pedigree on the bottom? this is sure going to affect a lot of papers. is there a list somewhere of the hounds that have proven to have a wrong pedigree on them?? even if ukc cannot prove who was behind these type happenings,a lot of things can be read between the lines if the info is made public.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Armstrong,IL
Posts: 3348

sure is going to be a mess for sure. Looks like any of the Oxy pups are included.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 192

this is alot worse then any mess, there is alot of guys out there who have hard earned time and money in there dogs, how will these guys now be compesated for that? by their papers being ruined and the purple ribbon revoked on their dog, i dont know about you but that doesnt sound good enough for me!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: illlinois
Posts: 1902

just can't understand what all will amount from this. don't feel ukc should be at fault on what they can or cannot do! DNA sure does snitch if the breeding isn't correct...but incorrect breeding is hard to swallow. got a close friend and his female didn't match to her dam's pedigree!!?? so...he ended up with unknown pedigree on her bottom side. he's still hurt by all the mess and loss of what he had hoped would be a good breeding foundation. it appears there is alot of controversy on red headed blues, monkeyfaced coloring, etc. maybe the blueticks are coming to a head on any unscruplous breeding of the past?! who's yer daddy? who's yer mommy? makes one wonder...with the comments i have read. hope something comes of all this...good, bad, or indifferent.

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AMAZEN COONHOUNDS

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does any body no what there talking about I DONT THINK SO seems like some of the men on here have nothen better to do then wine and cry about stuff they no clue about there are a lote of dogs out there that are not out of what there papper say so why is every one so up tight about spanky DOES EVERY ONE NO FOR A FACT WHAT THERE DOGS OUT OF?????????????????? TATOO MAN

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

Did he own Spanky at one time or what was up with Spanky being there ?????????

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 319

Maybe UKC should make it a requirement to have all dogs now owned and registered in the future to be profiled. If dogs turn up not to be out of thier registered sires and dams it should be a lifetime barring offense.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: columbia,mo.
Posts: 1256

Warren Hasslouer took Oxy to Jerry Winn's or Bart Nations's to be bred. I'm not sure which but he told me he put her in a pen with Spanky and then they went hunting. That's his story and I can't see a man with the reputation he has and the top of the line stud dogs he has owned needing to lye about what he bred to. This mess dearly concerns me and I can't bring my self to think that he would put another stud dogs name on papers on purpose when he had stud dogs of his own he could have said they were out of. It has to have been an accident but it sure is a bad deal for me and all who it concerns. I have tried to contact ukc twice but have yet to get in touch with the person I guess I need to talk to about the deal. I don't care who the grandpa of my dog is I just don't want the papers having blank spots. I haven't been to all the big hunts and advertised my dog in the books for lack of time and money, but if you talk to anyone who has hunted with him he can hold his own with the best. I like my dog and what he does and what his pups are doing regardless of the papers but bottom line people bred for papers so it would be nice to get this lined out.

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Just thought that I would clear up some of the misinformed members of this board.First of all Scott seivwright of Mondovi,Wis Called me about breeding Peggy to Dual Gr.ch. Russ'Treein Blu Luke.I picked her up on the way back from a rodeo in Minn.Bred her to luke and took her back to Scott.So you see Scott is the breeder.All I can say about the chaps that say he is birddog and whatever can eat my shorts because I know!!I also take this offensivly.It always seem's as though the people that do the most talking down on a great hound are either jealous or have never had a truly outstanding hound.
Spanky was raised by Pat Scott,another freind of mine at the time.Pat hunted him with his Healers the first fall. The following spring I was being paid to hunt him and try and curtail his sudden facination with speed goats.While he was here a deal was struck for John Cossman to buy him.I knew this dog needed to go to town so to speak and john was looking,after all having one of your best freind hunt a "KICK ASS" young dog out of your stuff is what we all want.John hunted him alone almost every night and treed truck loads of coon!!Did you hear me I said truck loads of coon!!!! He made him into a nt.ch. and put three wins on him.John was going through a custody battle over his son and the only reason this dog ever left Wis. Bart Nations was wanting a dog out of Luke or Toad that could win some hunts.I called bart and he bought him on my word sight unseen for $3,500.We delivered him to the acha world hunt in Flora,Ill.Earl Lockhard was the young man that he bought Spanky for to campain.Campain he did and built a list of impressive wins along the way including taking charge at walker days in Indina.He was a contender for the purina race and if my memory serves me right he was doin a handsome job!!Anyways this is where Jerry got involved!pretty soon the dog was tied here and there and there where a few different people that fed him for a while.Dave got him because where Jerry was going" you could not have pets"!!!It's not Spanky fault!! "REST IN PEACE OLD WARRIOR"!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: tenn, usa
Posts: 144

The dog will still be able to enter the events and will still have an easy entry card, and will still be considered to be purebred by the UKC. Open registered means that if the correct sire, or dam if found, dna'd and matched up, then UKC will fill the empty slots on your papers.

" I don't like this any more than you do" but, the longer you end up letting this dna exclusion thing bother you the more you will wish later that you didn't even give a hoot.

The same thing happened to me 4 years 5 months 12 days 3 hours 35 minutes and 15 seconds ago; and i regret ever having become extremely disappointed (to put it mildly) with the truth that i had purchased a puppy with a Dna Exclusion.

Go ahead and give a hoot if you want to; i do , and it's ok.
But don't beat yourself up over it dude.


You might be waiting a long time if you think the Paperwork will ever get straightened out the way you want it.

and to the UKC : i think your policy to deal with this type of mess up is fair. Like you say , if you can't prove who did anything wrong don't punish, but if you can prove who did , go for it. But Regarding " people placing incorrect papers on dogs", I think that the Rule of properly ( complete , sign, and date) transferring a Bill of Sale on a registered dog should be stressed, and enforced more strictly. What's wrong with taking problems Straight Back to Current Registered Owner To Whom the fault lies for not properly filling out papers and therefore He or she allows this kind of crap to go on; darn i feel like i'm yelling and i haven't said a word still broke a computer key.
Some of us work hard for our money and when crap happens we tend to get a little hot.
Sorry to get off task Chris but after all it has been 4 years 5 months and something and this crap will really eat at you after a while. I hope you find your stud dog and welcome to the 4 in 10,000 club. dna is only 99.96 % accurate after all.
And i apologize for even posting on this thread, i have been wanting to post here for several days but bit my tongue and i just could not take it anymore.
later , good luck.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylvester, GA
Posts: 30

quote:

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Originally posted by walkerdawg
Maybe UKC should make it a requirement to have all dogs now owned and registered in the future to be profiled. If dogs turn up not to be out of thier registered sires and dams it should be a lifetime barring offense.

---

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: columbia,mo.
Posts: 1256

Two Toes, No one is knocking Spanky as far as his ability or reproducing. I have centered my hole program around spanky. From what I understand he was one hell of a coon dog and I wish I could bred another one like him. That was my intention but I will never be lucky enough to find one to fill his shoes from what I have heard. I never hunted with Spanky but wished I could have. Thank you for the facts. I don't know about everyone else but I want to know all I can about the old dog.

dna dolly, Thanks for the vote of confidence! Since this whole 6 pages of stuff was started over my dog by my buddy feel free to chime in whenever. I hope this is over quickly and as painlessly as possible. I do think it will take some time to fix correctly whatever the end result but I just want the guys with pups out of my dog to get what they paid for. That being purple ribbon bred dogs. I do like my dog and I have four pups out of him that I'm keeping for myself regardless of his papers. I understand that if they have proven my papers wrong then they want to correct them and I agree but I don't think my dog should have to suffer because of what happened 12 years ago. He should be able to have the same chance as any other stud dog to breed females and reproduce the best dogs he can. I feal that this will affect the decission of future breeders and not give us a chance to see how he can help the breed. Like I said I like him and think he will be hard to replace as a coondog, as a pet, and as a friend. If I can help it, I'm going to try to have his blood what ever it is in what I will be hunting because I like what he does. Chris Baker

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