Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
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John M. Vaught

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quote:

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Originally posted by tony foley
I have not seen any redheads in several yrs., Suzie carried some real old blood for her time, she did live until i believe 13, BTW, warren said that is a dominate trait from old Rambler (long life span). Suzie has been gone for a few yrs now and most all of her pups are gone or about gone as well. My old Gr Nt Ch Foleys Smokey River Blue Annie was out of her and Chief, she had a black head, there was 3 crosses made with chief and only 1 redhead pup showed up, that is the Banker dog in N.C. i believe. It does seems like just after a generation or 2 they stop showing up, it is like something clicked in that cross of suzies and glorys to make it dominate, just as the cross with chief and fly showing a dominate monkey face.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: oklahoma
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I thought you had one from chief and leggs, not suzy !!

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quote:

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Originally posted by no show
I thought you had one from chief and leggs, not suzy !!

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
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This is a liver colored pup advertised for sale on the classifieds.

Any of you guys have one this color?

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Location: oklahoma
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sorry it was chief x lehighs blue bell.........your old post say you had one off this cross that had a weak mouth, I believe you said she hung herself

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quote:

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Originally posted by no show
sorry it was chief x lehighs blue bell.........your old post say you had one off this cross that had a weak mouth, I believe you said she hung herself

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John M. Vaught

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quote:

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Originally posted by John Carroll
This is a liver colored pup advertised for sale on the classifieds.

Any of you guys have one this color?

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John M. Vaught

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quote:

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Originally posted by John Vaught
OR A SMOKEY RIVER BREED DOG.......WOW THIS DOG SHOULD BE CULLED OR PUT IN THE BIRD DOG BREED CLASSIFIED

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Location: Jacksonville FL
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wonder if it points?

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I am assuming that the LIVER coloration of that dog is NOT acceptable and if I get your posts right- it can actually be traced to certain lines... and maybe there was a little bit of "OOPS, a bird dog got to my coonie"????
NOW- my next question is.... WHY would the bird dog have any desirability in the coondog???? Color??? What would they have been TRYING to add?
Please have patience with me- I am totally new to this stuff, I happen to really really like the Blue tick so I read this stuff. When my husband and I can hunt in the future, it'll be with a Bluetick or two. (although we WILL keep our B and Ts and love them dearly)
Thanks, Heather and the BIGCASTLEDAWGS

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So I understand the liver is an Off color. Still wonder about the birddog thing.
Thanks, Heather

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quote:

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Originally posted by no show
sorry it was chief x lehighs blue bell.........your old post say you had one off this cross that had a weak mouth, I believe you said she hung herself

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quote:

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Originally posted by SMOKIN' GUNS
__________BEAN'S RANGER
______EVAN'S BLUE KOJACK
__________UCHTMAN'S BLUE FLY
___CAMP CREEK BLUE RIG ROD
__________POWELL'S IL. SHORTY//////// Grandson of Ramber on top Diamond Jim on bottom
______CAMP CREEK BLUE MINNIE
__________CAMP CREEK BLUE ELLE
LANGEN'S BLUE SUZIE
__________SMOKEY RIVER BLUE RAMBLER
______POWELL'S IL. SAM
__________SMOKEY RIVER BLUE SELDOM.......Daughter of S.R. Samson mother wass S.R. Blue Mary
___CAMP CREEK BLUE BREEZY
__________IL. RIVER BLUE PORTER........ Son of Diamond Jim grandson of Rambler
______CAMP CREEK BLUE BREEZE
__________IL. RIVER SAGE

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I have asked the same question in the past, and I was told it was added back when to put the winding ability in the hounds, get the heads up, drifting style instead of straddling a track....just what I have heard....

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Your post nearly killed me! I could NOT understand the word "winding". I am head injured and certain words throw me for a loop. I was thinking of WINDING a CLOCK!
Owing a former hunting BlueTick who DEFINATELYs traddles ANY track.... I guess for competition it would "make sense" but WHY change a good thing when it isn't broken!?!
Thanks again, Heather WIlliam

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1187

How dominant is the monkey face strain? What I mean is are there any litters that contain monkey face pups but neither parents are monkey faced? I had a black and white pup born to two dark blue dogs. I do know where it came from but wonder the same with monkey face.

Ken

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: cana, virginia.
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To answer John Carroll ?? I'll be totally truthful and say that I have had more than a few of these liver colors to come out of totally different crosses I've made......Hammer, Uchtman, Smokey River, Jet, Dalton bred ( Smokey II ), Vaughn and ETC..........And if you ask some of the breeders of old and new this question ?? Some will say yes I get those now and again BUT ! Their are some that say they have never got the first one.........So they are either lucky or they forget easily.....LOL!!! I give them to hide hunters or to kids for pets and to some peoples disbelief.....They do run and tree coon and do it very well at it.......I just figure its a gene that comes out from time to time, so what do you do?? And what does it really matter!!! It is kinda aggravating I do admit when you have plans for so many pups and some come out liver. If their is a secret on how not to get them .......I' m all ears.....LOL!! I used to get the mouse colored T W's too, I guess some peolpe got it and some dont....LOL!!!....Oh yea! FACT: I witnessed the breeding of 2 liver colored bluedogs and in 63 days later Guess what ?? 8 pretty bluetick pups....LOL!! Go Figure......So I dont have any answers...LOL!!! John C. sorry about answering your ? with my next novel....LOL!! Chris

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Registered: Jul 2004
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I had a female that was heavy D.J. bred, and I bred her to a D.J. male and got a couple of buckskin pups (liver). They were never registered. I have seen them in the old D.J. line several times. A lot of blue colored dogs will get a liver tint to parts of their coat during the summer. There is a fine line between the blue and liver color. I don't think there is a bird dog in the " wood-pile," but it is a reflection back to the ancestry of the bluetick breed. In the beginning they were English dogs. Some redtick, some bluetick, and some were redtick trimmed with bluetick color. Red is such a part of the bluetick heritage it will pop up now and then. I think it would have to be connected to the pigiments in the skin. Regardless of the cause, it is a fault and should not be registered as bluetick. They seem to pop up more when you line breed real close. If you look at some of the old dogs like W.Va. Blue, Smokey River Ginger, and Smokey River Blue Smokey, they showed some red coloration. Many of the early Vaughn hounds, and Galoway hounds displayed some of this color, even though their body was bluetick in color. Many of the Lee brother's hounds were bluetick, but looked more like redtick/bluetick (English) hounds. I know of some that were trained and made good dogs. Their color should not affect their ability. I have never tried to train one. I guess most hunters want to spend their time and money on something they can hunt, show, or breed if they choose to.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

Liver comes out in any black breed eventually ..... dobermans , labs , jags , etc .

The longer a breed is kept "pure" more livers and other recessive colors , muted colors or mutations will start popping up.

I saw a whole litter of chocolate blueticks about ten years ago and even then I knew it wasn't because of bird dog blood .

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Registered: Mar 2006
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That makes aLOT of sense to me. My family used to be Doberman people and I have seen it and the blue etc... come out in the breed. Also the B and Ts now showing the Choclate colors more often.
I wonder if it shows up in the AKC B and Ts? Haven't seen it in any literature (not that there is much....).
Anyway, it makes more sense to me that it would come from close breeding. I can't imagine Wanting BirdDog and Scent hound together.
Heather William

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Mr Grant, I have seen it happen, I have a 7 yr old female out of Nixons Geronimo, and a daughter of uchtmans albert, and neither are monkey faced, but the gyp is, she is the spitting image of Dryfork Spud, her great grandsire....when I asked tommy nixon about it, he remember my female, and said she was one of the first monkey faced dogs otu of his stud he had seen....

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: West TN
Posts: 24

I have another question...
Because my female is monkey faced will that hurt her in shows? That is the main purpose I bought the dog and I am hoping that it will not effect her winning. I am very new in the showing aspect and I need your opions.
Thanks
Amanda

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Adams,TN
Posts: 260

Being monkey faced is not a fault. But if the judge doesnt like monkey faced dogs.....remember you are paying for their opinion of your dog. They are SUPPOSE to judge them against the standards, not their preference, but you will have judges that will do that. JUst remember there is another show down the road, and as long as your dog shows well for you and you enjoyed yourself, that is what its about.

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