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quote:

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Originally posted by Kyle W. Graf
Did you have a bear in the tree? How is the participation in these events?
Kyle

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Will any Big Game dog ever sire enough pups to matter ?
<I doubt it>
What if they Did ?
Coon hunters ask yourself this question. Would these things Help or Hurt your breeding program ? Not that you would have to use Any Big Game breeding Single Registered or PR bred.

Here are some of the things Demanded by Big Game Hunters
<Many Big Game Hunters Cull Ruthlessly.>
1 NO Roughness at the tree. Often Big Game is treed by pack's of hounds. This pack will often stay treed for hours at a time. Any dog starting trouble will often be culled on the 1st tree.
2.NO Slick Treeing. Big Game dogs that slick tree are often culled on the 2nd or 3rd tree. I posted a poll awhile back and most said they would cull a otherwise Good pup if the pup slick treed more than 3% in his first season.
3. Good Tracking ability. When a Big Game starts a track the Hounds need to finish what they start. Once again these guys are Extremely Tough on a hound that Back Tracks/Blows Up any track.
If these types of hounds were ever bred in numbers to the Coon hounds would it Matter? I think It depends on what you were looking for in a hound.
Many Big Game breeders have Bred for this type of hound for generations. However with No UKC events in their area. They Often never bother to Keep the UKC papers up to date. Should we now Lock them out Forever. I think it will Cost us all in the End if we do. I say let us use the Best of What we have, If the best is some Breeder in some Small mountain town out West. Use His stock. If the Best is back East use his Stuff. To Puff out the chest and say that We can afford to over look the Best because some guy 30 years ago never thought Keeping his UKC paper in order was going to be a Big Deal is Passing over Ability to feed Ego. Names like Merchant/Boyd went for ability.

The Question is should the next guy be able to use this type of breeding if he Chooses ?


Jess

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Last edited by hellcat on 07-28-2007 at 04:11 PM

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Hellcat: just curious why is the big game title or stamp so important? you know what you got. why mess with succes? Don't mistake this reply as grounds for srcaping just a ? and curious.would,nt a new big game pedigree for this be quite difficult to trace and track? how would you do this just by names and %'s of what might be in each dog.Seems like alot of work. Tried to word this right not simple.

Tiny Santana

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Think a Big Game stamp or title Registration on the means anything !!!
I just thought it would make things eaiser if The Big Game hunter
could single register his hounds by showing them on the game they are trained to Run and Tree. In many places The Big Game hunter has no Coon to tree.
The idea was to let a hunter Single Register his hound
by treeing the game that he hunts.
Single Registration is already a fact. Should the Big Game hunter be able to Prove his hounds ability to run and tree on game that it has run and treed before. Sounded Simple enough <LOL>
Jess

bearman, No scrap here. I enjoyed your post.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bearman
[B]Hellcat: just curious why is the big game title or stamp so important? you know what you got. why mess with succes? Don't mistake this reply as grounds for srcaping just a ? and curious.wouldnt a new big game pedigree for this be quite difficult to trace and track? how would you do this just by names and %'s of what might be in each dog.Seems like alot of work. Tried to word this right not simple.

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Last edited by hellcat on 07-29-2007 at 12:35 AM

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I think everyone has answered the question..through their own opinions and questions voiced. We should leave the method of registry and title alone. Agreed?

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If you check, The Vote it's 2 to 1 in favor of a change.


For what it's worth I have never single registerd a hound and I doubt if I ever will.

Jess

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"They are often imitated but never duplicated"

Last edited by hellcat on 07-28-2007 at 07:23 PM

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personally I believe the vote means nothing.

UKC has to weigh out the pros and cons and decide whether or not its in the best interest for the registry and its foundation. Majority is just popular opinion not necessarily the right decision.

We had a majority vote to keep the big game issue seperate from the breeds issue and they still went with the combination so do not assume that majority vote gets everything.....

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quote:

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Originally posted by todd kellam
I really like this idea and I don't see why we shouldn't be able to get it done. Obviously the inspection process will be more time consuming but if the western houndsmen are willing to take the time to inspect dogs, and we can come up with basic criteria, I can't see why the Chartered Breed Associations wouldn't go for it?

If there ends up being a shortage of inspectors, here's what we do. UKC sends me out there for a week during bear season and a week during lion season. Oh, and I'll need a week in the Northeast to hunt with Pete and that group. I probably should make a trip to the southwest also. Yes, that's only an extra month that I would have to be out of the office. Should work. lol

Seriously, I'll take this topic to the Breed Association's Presidents Meeting at Autumn Oaks and present it. If it passes, we'll start working on outlining the basic requirements necessary to pass inspection.

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"They are often imitated but never duplicated"

Last edited by hellcat on 07-28-2007 at 07:21 PM

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I can not think of any reason why treeing big game to fulfill the requirements of single registration would hurt registered coonhounds.

The difference between big game hounds and nite hunt dog's is not much different than pleasure hounds and nite hunt dog's. If someone is going through the trouble to single register they want pups out of that dog. The average big game hound that was being single registered would probably be better than the average UKC registered hound.

They are all interchangeable to some degree. Most outstanding big game hound's would be a shoe in for Nite Ch. if they were hunted in the hunts instead of run on big game.
Kyle

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Qote by RedBones4me "NO NO NO
not if the hounds are ENGLISH, TREEING WALKER, REDBONE, BLACK & TAN, PLOTT or BLUETICK because these hounds are COONHOUNDS and they are not called COONHOUNDS for no reason.

If people want bear dogs then someone needs to come up with a bear dog breed, not take a COONHOUND breed and make them run off game. I believe that UKC wants people to promote the breeds and do what is in the best interest of the breed. Changing a COONHOUND over to a dear, bear, cat or anything other than coon dog does not promote the COONHOUND breed properly."

I was not going to post on this thread until I read this ridiculous post. Changing a coonhound over to a deer, bear, cat dog, are you serious. So I guess you've never had to break one of your "coondogs" from running deer. Coonhounds will run whatever you train them to hunt. "Coonhound" is nothing more than a lable and has nothing do with limiting their usage. Everybody knew these dogs could and would run bear, cats, or hogs with as much success as they would have running them on coons. You also mentioned the plott specifically as a "coonhound." Do you know what the plott breed was originally bred to hunt? My guess is NO! Someone did specifically come up with a bearhound breed, the plott, but unlike you I don't have any problem with someone who uses a plott to run off game such as coon. The definition of "off game" is decided by each individual hunter, not the dog.

Jim

Last edited by bowhunter7 on 07-29-2007 at 06:14 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by bowhunter7
"NO NO NO
not if the hounds are ENGLISH, TREEING WALKER, REDBONE, BLACK & TAN, PLOTT or BLUETICK because these hounds are COONHOUNDS and they are not called COONHOUNDS for no reason.

If people want bear dogs then someone needs to come up with a bear dog breed, not take a COONHOUND breed and make them run off game. I believe that UKC wants people to promote the breeds and do what is in the best interest of the breed. Changing a COONHOUND over to a dear, bear, cat or anything other than coon dog does not promote the COONHOUND breed properly."



Jim

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"NO NO NO
not if the hounds are ENGLISH, TREEING WALKER, REDBONE, BLACK & TAN, PLOTT or BLUETICK because these hounds are COONHOUNDS and they are not called COONHOUNDS for no reason.


thats a good one, LOL

so if your so stuck on the name coonhound then I guess you are educated in who labeled these breeds coonhounds and would like to enlighten us all in what the hounds were used for before they were so called proclaimed coonhounds

It has been commented earlier that the Big game houndsmen have a hang up with their hounds being called Coonhounds. Sounds like the word predjudice and hang up is coming more from a coonhunter not a big game hunter.....

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Last edited by Spanky on 07-29-2007 at 05:14 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by bowhunter7
The definition of "off game" is decided by each individual hunter, not the dog.

Jim

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

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quote:

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Originally posted by Budd Denny
So what did they do with the Fox hound breed? Wait thats were Walker COONhounds came from.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

Last edited by RedBones4me on 07-29-2007 at 08:57 PM

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Just to make it clear that first part of my post above was a quote from Redbones4me. My response is listed below the quote. I don't want to be misquoted.

Originally posted by RedBones4me
"That may be true also, but in the case of single registering a dog the definition of off game is anything other than a coon. According to UKC, and UKC's definition is the only definition that matters if you want your dog registered".

That's what were talking about here changing the definition or adding to it, making it accesible for big game hounds. I don't know for sure, but my guess is UKC didn't mean to exclude big game dogs from single registration when they started this, it was just something that slipped through the cracks and now they have an opportunity to make it right. An owner of a "big game" hound should have the same opportunity as the owner of a "coon hound", wouldn't you agree. If not, you'll have a very hard time convincing me coon hound owners deserve special treatment. I can't believe were getting so wrapped up in semantics. If something like this prevents this from happeneing we should be ashamed of ourselves.

Jim

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I am lost on this post. From what I see, and hear and the big game guys I know. There dogs are from UKC reg hounds already. They don't bother sending in the papers.

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quote:

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Originally posted by bowhunter7
That's what were talking about here changing the definition or adding to it, making it accesible for big game hounds. An owner of a "big game" hound should have the same opportunity as the owner of a "coon hound", wouldn't you agree.

Jim

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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The only thing that I would like to see happen if the single registration for big game hounds goes through is that UKC keeps the pedigrees different and that no big game pedigree can be crossed with a coonhound pedigree. I know that alot of people hunt mixed dogs for big game and I know it happens in the coonhound world also, but it is already hard enough to keep one group of people from mixing dogs and single registering them, I'm sure it would only be worse if two groups could do it. So I guess I am saying no breeding of Big Game and coonhounds.
I am not saying that big game dogs are any less, Iam convinced that they have a much harder life of hunting and endure more strenuous enviroments than coon dogs and get the job done.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by RedBones4me
The only thing that I would like to see happen if the single registration for big game hounds goes through is that UKC keeps the pedigrees different and that no big game pedigree can be crossed with a coonhound pedigree. So I guess I am saying no breeding of Big Game and coonhounds.

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Dale,

There is no reason to have seperate single registration for dogs of the same breed just because they're run on different game and I think Todd stated specifically that this was not what he was going to propose at the meeting. Let me give you a for instance. Say me, you, and the guy down the street each get a pup from the same litter out of a registered dam and a grade dog sire. You run your dog on coon, I run mine on bear, and the guy down the street runs his on bobcats, should we have to single register them in separate registries? If so, why? I think there is more of an argument for eliminating all single registry than to impliment what your talking about. I think you're getting way too hung up on the term "coonhound." As far as no breeding of "coonhounds" to "big game" hounds that's your business, leave UKC out of it. I'm sure your not going to breed to another dog without doing your homework and making an informed decision. If you don't want to breed to a dog that got registered based on it's ability to tree big game then don't, simple as that.

Jim

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Jim,

You have helped me to see the light. LOL I agree with you. I got off track there and you helped me get back on it. Sometimes people have to have things explained to them in different ways to see the other side. Thanks

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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Well that's no fun! Anybody else want to argue? I was just getting started. lol, just kidding.

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You are The Man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMAO, I would call that a Stunning One Round Knockout

Can I hire you to do that for me in the Future.<LOL>
Jess

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"They are often imitated but never duplicated"

Last edited by hellcat on 07-31-2007 at 04:54 PM

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LMAO........

Jess, when are we gonna go and tree us a lion? LOL

I just might turn to the darkside. LOL

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by bowhunter7
Well that's no fun! Anybody else want to argue? I was just getting started. lol, just kidding.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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